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Old 01-17-2020, 08:57 PM #21
hayZ hayZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
Conor, before the Mayweather earnings, was a man-possesed, and far more comitted to fighting than Khabib. He was more professional, too. He never pulled out of fights last minute.

The point is, Khabib walks around at 190, or above. He cuts 35+ pounds! Conor put on a lot of muscle, but he's not that big. Not at all.

McGregor can make 155, if he's still serious. The questions to ask, though, are: 1) How's his wrestling defense? 2)How's his wind?
Khabib WALKED around that weight around the fight vs Michael Johnson. He used to walk around at a much higher weight. Partly because he felt like he could make the weight and at least around that fight because he had a back injury which meant he put on more weight than usual.

He hasn't been that high up in years and if you follow him, he is always training now. Light but always active.

I think Conor performed much better than I thought he would from a grappling perspective. His defence was good for a guy whose forte is not grappling. He just came up against the best grappler in that style...ever in the UFC.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:01 PM #22
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Khabib WALKED around that weight around the fight vs Michael Johnson. He used to walk around at a much higher weight. Partly because he felt like he could make the weight and at least around that fight because he had a back injury which meant he put on more weight than usual.

He hasn't been that high up in years and if you follow him, he is always training now. Light but always active.

I think Conor performed much better than I thought he would from a grappling perspective. His defence was good for a guy whose forte is not grappling. He just came up against the best grappler in that style...ever in the UFC.
He;s still a huge Lightweight. Especially by the post-USADA standards (now that guys like Tibau can't make Lightweight). He was a Welterweight before joining the UFC, and he has missed as many fights as he has actually fought - because of his inability to make weight.

The AKA group is a funny bunch. Coach Mendez really stresses massive weight cuts. One great thing about a massive weight cut is that the recuperative IV's flush out a lot of the the naughty stuff that is tested for.

Anyway, I DO AGREE WITH YOU. In spirit, at least, if not in every detail. But it needs to be mentioend that a lot of Lightweights would have beaten Conor that night. Certainly the Alvarez and Diaz whom he had beaten before his foray into Boxing would have beaten him that night, too.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:34 PM #23
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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
Who said he was. He's proven his a better overall Mixed Martial Artist doe.



It's funny seeing you talk about the negatives with these superior MMA guys while ignoring Conor's negatives. Look I like Conor for what he is. He's a fun ass standup fighter & an entertaining personality in combat sports but the guy gots more quit in him than Riddick Bowe when he was in the Marines for 3 days or however long back in the day. Conor deals with adversity worse than any high level guy I've seen in awhile. Look at all the sh^t Roberto Duran got for no masing vs SRL. Conor gots 4 no mas' on his record.

Whatever doe we obviously won't agree but if Conor doesn't KO Cowboy in the first Rd or two &/or Cowboy shows some fight IQ & takes the fight to the ground don't be surprised to see a 5th no mas situation. Conor is a front runner who can't get outta bad spots.
I can agree to disagree on our perspective of McGregor. But a lot of what you are saying is patently untrue.

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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
Who said he was. He's proven his a better overall Mixed Martial Artist doe.
No he hasn't. McGregor is his best win. But that was faaaar from the best McGregor. Again, with less time in the UFC McGregor fought across 3 divisions, and was a simultaneous 2 division champ. Khabib - who is lucky to make it into the ring at all - has refused to make any attempt at the Welterweight belt, even though he fought in that division previously, and struggles immensely to make Lightweight.

Even in this weight class he doesn't finish opponents as fast and violently as McGregor.

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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
It's funny seeing you talk about the negatives with these superior MMA guys while ignoring Conor's negatives.
What are his negatives?

Clearly the others can't do what he does. How do we know? They won't even try.

Forget about how bad (comparatively) their records are, look at the decisions they made when they had the chance to actually pursue greatness:

Johnson ruled over the biggest joke of a division in MMA, yet he refused to attempt to avenge his loss to Cruz. He also wanted no part of his successors: Barao, and Dillashaw.

Silva's only foray into the LHw division was to fight side-show hacks:Griffin and Bonnar. He then played hero saving a card where he met Cormier in a win-win situation.

Speaking of Cormier, Jones beat him twice (using PEDs). But openly stated he didn't want that smoke at Heavyweight: Jones knows Cormier's punches carry more mustard at Heavyweight. It's not just Cormier either: even thought Jones has long reigned over the very shallow Light HEavyweight division, and the truly glory is in being the Heavyweight champion, he has always refused the steak dinner, preferring his hamburger for lunch.

As I have already stated, Conor is very much an unfinished article. He's clearly playing catch up. These others fighters had years of martial arts experience to build upon; came out of very established gyms; and were brought up the ranks very carefully - in much shallower divisions. None of that is true of Conor, so his game has some holes in it.

But his real set-backs haven't been owed to him being an incomplete fighter, but from running head first into challenges he wasn't prepared for.

Diaz didn't beat him by being a more well-rounded fighter, he beat him by being a natural Welterweight (who wouldn't settle into a slugfest). Floyd beat him by actually being a Professional Boxer. Khabib beat him by being a professional, period.

That hubris is a negative. I agree. It has also made him way more accomplished and wealthier than the men you mentioned will ever be. Combined.

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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post

entertaining personality in combat sports but the guy gots more quit in him than Riddick Bowe when he was in the Marines for 3 days or however long back in the day. Conor deals with adversity worse than any high level guy I've seen in awhile.
Did he quit against Mendes? (a fight he didn't need to take).

When have you ever seen a fighter dig deep like McGregor did in his rematch with Diaz? (another fight he didn't need to take).

His first Boxing match, professional or amateur, he met the best at the time, and willed his way to the 10th round. Being stopped on his feet.

With no previous Martial Arts experience he willed himself into being the UFC's first simultaneous 2 division champion, in MMA's most talent-laden divisions. (And he did it without cheating and Dana White pulling strings with the judges - as has been the case with the fighters you mentioned).

He was the most tested fighter in the UFC because he was the only one who invited testing, and was honest about not needing PEDs.

He's clearly any old school fighter, a real man, in the same vein as guys like Fitzsimmons, Greb, Walker, Dempsey, Conn. Boxing hasn't seen real men like that for more than half a century, and when MMA has them, they have not been that talented. McGregor (along with St. Pierre and Edgar) changed that.

Conor definitely runs himself into predicaments. But that's what his fans like about him. That's why people watch MMA. They were tired of the Mayweathers, the Tysons, the Jones. Guys who juiced up, but then quit or protected their careers the second they felt the pain of adversity. McGregor's like the old school fighters that made Boxing the vaunted sport it has become in the public mindset.

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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
Whatever doe we obviously won't agree but if Conor doesn't KO Cowboy in the first Rd or two &/or Cowboy shows some fight IQ & takes the fight to the ground don't be surprised to see a 5th no mas situation. Conor is a front runner who can't get outta bad spots.
I am picking Cerrone because he's the actual Welterweight. He has a pretty solid track record there, and much more experience than Conor. Conor, most dammingly, has been out of the game for a while. it's a game fought in millimeters. If you're off at all, you might as well be off by a mile.

However tomorrow plays out, it doesn't change the fact that you've never seen a fighter as good as McGregor, when he was at his best. And leagues superior to the guys you compared him to.

Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 01-17-2020 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 01-18-2020, 04:19 AM #24
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
I can agree to disagree on our perspective of McGregor. But a lot of what you are saying is patently untrue.



No he hasn't. McGregor is his best win. But that was faaaar from the best McGregor. Again, with less time in the UFC McGregor fought across 3 divisions, and was a simultaneous 2 division champ. Khabib - who is lucky to make it into the ring at all - has refused to make any attempt at the Welterweight belt, even though he fought in that division previously, and struggles immensely to make Lightweight.

Even in this weight class he doesn't finish opponents as fast and violently as McGregor.



What are his negatives?

Clearly the others can't do what he does. How do we know? They won't even try.

Forget about how bad (comparatively) their records are, look at the decisions they made when they had the chance to actually pursue greatness:

Johnson ruled over the biggest joke of a division in MMA, yet he refused to attempt to avenge his loss to Cruz. He also wanted no part of his successors: Barao, and Dillashaw.

Silva's only foray into the LHw division was to fight side-show hacks:Griffin and Bonnar. He then played hero saving a card where he met Cormier in a win-win situation.

Speaking of Cormier, Jones beat him twice (using PEDs). But openly stated he didn't want that smoke at Heavyweight: Jones knows Cormier's punches carry more mustard at Heavyweight. It's not just Cormier either: even thought Jones has long reigned over the very shallow Light HEavyweight division, and the truly glory is in being the Heavyweight champion, he has always refused the steak dinner, preferring his hamburger for lunch.

As I have already stated, Conor is very much an unfinished article. He's clearly playing catch up. These others fighters had years of martial arts experience to build upon; came out of very established gyms; and were brought up the ranks very carefully - in much shallower divisions. None of that is true of Conor, so his game has some holes in it.

But his real set-backs haven't been owed to him being an incomplete fighter, but from running head first into challenges he wasn't prepared for.

Diaz didn't beat him by being a more well-rounded fighter, he beat him by being a natural Welterweight (who wouldn't settle into a slugfest). Floyd beat him by actually being a Professional Boxer. Khabib beat him by being a professional, period.

That hubris is a negative. I agree. It has also made him way more accomplished and wealthier than the men you mentioned will ever be. Combined.



Did he quit against Mendes? (a fight he didn't need to take).

When have you ever seen a fighter dig deep like McGregor did in his rematch with Diaz? (another fight he didn't need to take).

His first Boxing match, professional or amateur, he met the best at the time, and willed his way to the 10th round. Being stopped on his feet.

With no previous Martial Arts experience he willed himself into being the UFC's first simultaneous 2 division champion, in MMA's most talent-laden divisions. (And he did it without cheating and Dana White pulling strings with the judges - as has been the case with the fighters you mentioned).

He was the most tested fighter in the UFC because he was the only one who invited testing, and was honest about not needing PEDs.

He's clearly any old school fighter, a real man, in the same vein as guys like Fitzsimmons, Greb, Walker, Dempsey, Conn. Boxing hasn't seen real men like that for more than half a century, and when MMA has them, they have not been that talented. McGregor (along with St. Pierre and Edgar) changed that.

Conor definitely runs himself into predicaments. But that's what his fans like about him. That's why people watch MMA. They were tired of the Mayweathers, the Tysons, the Jones. Guys who juiced up, but then quit or protected their careers the second they felt the pain of adversity. McGregor's like the old school fighters that made Boxing the vaunted sport it has become in the public mindset.



I am picking Cerrone because he's the actual Welterweight. He has a pretty solid track record there, and much more experience than Conor. Conor, most dammingly, has been out of the game for a while. it's a game fought in millimeters. If you're off at all, you might as well be off by a mile.

However tomorrow plays out, it doesn't change the fact that you've never seen a fighter as good as McGregor, when he was at his best. And leagues superior to the guys you compared him to.
Bro if he's as good as your making him out to be he shouldn't have any trouble putting away Cerrone who has been knocked out in his past two fights.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:08 AM #25
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been knocked out in his past two fights.
At 155. And even then, those weren't fights against an opponent who'd be out of the ring for two years.

I won't be able to watch the fight, regrettably. The wife and I will be travelling to Spain this week, so I need to prepare for that. But we'll see how this unfolds.
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Old 01-18-2020, 03:09 PM #26
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Yeah we know why you're fighting cerrone. Conor is on that floyd mayweather hype status now; having a pointless fight actually draw mainstream interest.
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Old 01-18-2020, 04:20 PM #27
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Who said he was. He's proven his a better overall Mixed Martial Artist doe.
Better wrestler, that's about it. He's stronger, physically, but that comes with the wrestling world.

I can't name a guy who is good at wrestling but is physically weak. It just doesn't go together.

But I retain, Khabib is just a smaller matt hughes/ bigger sean sherk.

He's honestly not that good. In my eyes, he's just not. He's very strong, he's a very good wrestler but he's like Rich Franklin era of mma.

It's the reason why I think Ferguson beats him and I can't stand Ferguson. I am not a fan of his at all but he's tough, has cardio, is very aggressive, has ko power, can scramble, and can submit you.

He should beat Khabib truth be told. Barring some freak BS like Condit blowing out his knee or Anderson breaking his leg on a kick. Both in the middle of a match and knowing Ferguson, he'd fight the whole time at a complete disadvantage.
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Old 01-18-2020, 04:24 PM #28
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Bro if he's as good as your making him out to be he shouldn't have any trouble putting away Cerrone who has been knocked out in his past two fights.
That's bs.

We can't just shrug off Cerrone like he's a bum.

He burns under the bright lights but the guy cleared the division and is a tough MFer.

He just can't get it going when it matters the most. I don't know why but he's been on the cusp about 3 clear times. But folds to some of the weakest looking ****, when it matters the most.
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:14 PM #29
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The X factor of this fight is the weight their fighting at (170). Cerrones last two losses where at 155 and he struggles to make that weight. At 170 Cerrone will be better and the bigger man. Just a year ago Cerrone beat the Nr 4 ranked in the world. Conor could have had the fight at 155 but Conor always want a challenge. Pretty opposite of Floyd Mayweather
He weighed in with his shoes and pants on.

connor weighed in in his underwear

both came in at 170.

cowboy isnt really any bigger here, he made weight easier than connor
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:42 PM #30
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Conor wins by 2nd round ko, I've already read the script/result.
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