I suppose this is why the US isnt producing those elite HWs anymore.

[D4thincarnation]

that's the end result of america not investing enough money in boxing at amateur/olympics level.
what is $300m to the US government?

let me show you a difference
Dillian whyte was banned at amateur level boxing because of his kickboxing background. As a result, despite beating AJ in the amaturs, he fell way behind. AJ was receiving the creme de la creme in facilities and knowledge..with sports scientists, coaches etc whilst whyte was training out of his garade.
the difference is that AJ is a far more accomplished fighter.

to make it in the US from amateur levels shows you must have a lot of perseverance.

1) The govt. does not fund it. It is funded by profits from the lottery.

2) Whyte was world class kick boxer, Joshua was a novice, that is why he beat Joshua in the amateurs.

3) Many other GB fighters never came through that Team GB squad, such as Fury and Dubois.

There is a lot of money in US boxing, but if you don't give any back, you get this dearth in talent.

[Mikeh333]

I also believe race comes into it.

There aren't many white people in the US set up. I imagine a load of coloured kids..and therefore i imagine the US government not giving a single **** about them.

Race has nothing to do with it. No one, in this day and age, says, “Well, there’s a lot of black and Latino folks in boxing. Screw them.” I’m sure the U.S. basketball team isn’t treated with contempt. The U.S. simply doesn’t support sports with public money. In Britain it’s expected that elite athletes will be on the public dole. The U.S. has never embraced that.

Furthermore, boxing is a very popular sport in the U.K. It isn’t in America. Makes sense that the U.K. would find it more heavily.

Finally, while PEDs have always been a problem in America, they never had a state-sponsored doping program. The USSR did.

[Tails]

I don't necessarily think it has so much to do with more popular sports although I am sure that does have some effect on the talent pool.

But on a more basic level. Most people are tentative to fight someone they think can beat them. In boxing you are going against someone your size and eventually you are going to run into some skilled people.

For heavyweight sized people I'd imagine they are hesitant to willingly fight someone their size since they are used to being much bigger than everyone else growing up.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Audley Harrison is the reason as to why? Boxing gets funding as a Olympic sport within the UK. Up until his Gold Medal boxing was not really being backed by the government etc

In general I do not think US Olympic Sports receive much funding from the government. It is their collegiate programs which develops athletes 'And boxing is not really a sport you see many people gaining scholarships from'

[Inspired]

1) The govt. does not fund it. It is funded by profits from the lottery.

2) Whyte was world class kick boxer, Joshua was a novice, that is why he beat Joshua in the amateurs.

3) Many other GB fighters never came through that Team GB squad, such as Fury and Dubois.

There is a lot of money in US boxing, but if you don't give any back, you get this dearth in talent.

1) You're right, the World Class Programme and Athlete performance award is Lottery funded, but UK sport, who allocate those funds accordingly, are a government agency. It's all bureaucracy at the end of the day. How government agencies decide money should be divided.

2) Whilst you're right about Whyte, i'm talking about his lack of development later down the line in comparison to AJ's growth. if Whyte had kickboxing training that enabled him to be better than AJ at one stage, why did he fall so far back later? Did AJ receive a bursary during his olympic days? of course he did.

3) you dont have to be an olympian to receive a bursary. You only need to be an athlete. Fury represented England and Ireland in various tournies. Although i think of these gypsy boxers as an exception anyway because boxing is in their culture.
Daniel dubois may not have been an olympian, but he trained in Olympic boxing programme in sheffield.
on some level they were part of a system that has funding on some level.
they werent coming up from nowhere like many do in the US.

i think claressa shields once talked about this too, the lack of funding in the USA compared to the uk.

[ShoulderRoll]

IMO, the best Heavyweight is American.

Also the best Heavyweight from England, Anthony Joshua, was dethroned by an American. Although that American is too lazy to consistently stay at the top and AJ took full advantage of that in the rematch.

Great points.

The US isn't producing heavyweights yet we have the best heavy and the guy that beat England's best...imagine if we WERE producing heavyweights?

[Inspired]

Race has nothing to do with it. No one, in this day and age, says, “Well, there’s a lot of black and Latino folks in boxing. Screw them.” I’m sure the U.S. basketball team isn’t treated with contempt. The U.S. simply doesn’t support sports with public money. In Britain it’s expected that elite athletes will be on the public dole. The U.S. has never embraced that.

Furthermore, boxing is a very popular sport in the U.K. It isn’t in America. Makes sense that the U.K. would find it more heavily.

Finally, while PEDs have always been a problem in America, they never had a state-sponsored doping program. The USSR did.

in the US, the NBA has 24% whites. The NFL has 28% whites.
how many white americans are actively boxing right now? its a minority sport right now..

USA boxing received very little money.
other sports receive a lot more than boxing.
make of that what you will.


no, boxing isnt more popular in the uk than the usa. it is only the 7th-10th most popular sport in the uk.
it is jus funded better than the american counterparts.

[Inspired]

Great points.

The US isn't producing heavyweights yet we have the best heavy and the guy that beat England's best...imagine if we WERE producing heavyweights?

i obv dont entirely agree with him eg wilder did lose to Fury..and ruiz is pretty much a mexican who got lucky...not even discounting the probability that the aj fights werent fixed to game the betting odds.
However, the overall point is the same, yes, there ought to be way more than just wilder and miller...and the almighty Lord Charles Martin.

there are 2 ways to look at it. if AJ was receiving 30k a yr during his olympic days and Wilder was receiving a lot less, then naturally aj had the upper hand.
Yet, it could be argued that that makes the Americans much tougher and hungrier given the higher adversity/lack of opportunities they're given

if this is what the US has right now, imagine if amateur level boxers were paid or training in well funded gyms with better facilities, how good would they be?

when i was a kid, i remember the americans absolutely dominating brits in athletics/olympics. then i remember the fallout from the likes of marion jones cheating.
the source/origin of the cheating doesnt matter, the bad press destroyed peoples sense of pride i guess..now no one cares if the US gets the most medals.

remember the US is 5x bigger than the uk..and i have to bring race into it too
45m blacks in the USA and only 1.8m in the uk.
so we have AJ, Whyte, Dubois at HW right now (from the blacks)...it stands to reason if they were equally funded..the US should have far far more elite HW boxers...black boxers.

[Inspired]

btw, im only bringing up 'the blacks' here because i believe between usa and america, it is the blacks primarily who dominate the HW scene. Fury is an anamoly, he is gypsy, unorthodox and a bit special..but like for like, the usa should have 10 versions comparable to AJ, Whyte and Dubois.
whether it is due to these big athletically gifted black kids going into other sports, or the lack of funding which may stunt their development, for some reason murica has produced
Wilder (and he is barely a boxer), Miller, Charles Martin.


i guess the reason why for example you have Crawford, Spence jr, porter at WW for example..is because those normal height guys dont excel in the nba and nfl..so boxing is the only place for those guys to d.

basically there must be a load of hidden deontay wilder's in the NBA.

[D4thincarnation]

btw, im only bringing up 'the blacks' here because i believe between usa and america, it is the blacks primarily who dominate the HW scene. Fury is an anamoly, he is gypsy, unorthodox and a bit special..but like for like, the usa should have 10 versions comparable to AJ, Whyte and Dubois.
whether it is due to these big athletically gifted black kids going into other sports, or the lack of funding which may stunt their development, for some reason murica has produced
Wilder (and he is barely a boxer), Miller, Charles Martin.


i guess the reason why for example you have Crawford, Spence jr, porter at WW for example..is because those normal height guys dont excel in the nba and nfl..so boxing is the only place for those guys to d.

basically there must be a load of hidden deontay wilder's in the NBA.

So you never heard of those two brothers from the Ukraine then.