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I hear this sort of argument a lot. Time to put this myth to rest.
1. "Today's boxers are athletically superior"
Hear this one a LOT. people usually state this is true due to the progression of bench pressing maxes or something. But heres the thing that gets you: boxing is more about explosive strength and coordination. Take a look at some other sports that use that...
High Jump
1. 2.45 Javier Sotomayor Cuba Salamanca 23 July 1993
2. 2.42 Patrik Sjöberg Sweden Stockholm 30 June 1987
3. 2.41 Igor Paklin Soviet Union Kobe 4 September 1985
4. 2.40 Rudolf Povarnitsyn Soviet Union Donetsk 11 August 1985
Sorin Matei Romania Bratislava 20 June 1990
Charles Austin USA Zürich 7 August 1991
Vyacheslav Voronin Russia London 5 August 2000
8. 2.39 Zhu Jianhua China Eberstadt 10 June 1984
Hollis Conway USA Norman 30 July 1989
Long Jump
8.95 0.3 Mike Powell United States Tokyo August 30, 1991
8.90A 2.0 Bob Beamon United States Mexico City October 18, 1968
8.87 -0.2 Carl Lewis United States Tokyo August 30, 1991
8.86A 1.9 Robert Emmiyan Soviet Union Tsakhkadzor May 22, 1987
8.74 1.4 Larry Myricks United States Indianapolis July 18, 1988
8.74A 2.0 Erick Walder United States El Paso April 2, 1994
8.74 -1.2 Dwight Phillips United States Eugene June 7, 2009
8.73 1.2 Irving Saladino Panama Hengelo May 24, 2008
Triple Jump
18.29 1 1.3 Jonathan Edwards (GBR) Gothenburg August 7, 1995
18.09 2 -0.4 Kenny Harrison (USA) Atlanta July 27, 1996
17.98 1.2 Teddy Tamgho (FRA) New York City June 12, 2010
17.97 1.5 Willie Banks (USA) Indianapolis June 16, 1985
17.92 1.6 Khristo Markov (BUL) Rome August 31, 1987
17.92 1.9 James Beckford (JAM) Odessa May 20, 1995
17.90 0.4 Jadel Gregório (BRA) Belém May 20, 2007
17.90 1.0 Vladimir Inozemtsev (UKR) Bratislava June 20, 1990
17.89 0.0 Joăo Carlos de Oliveira (BRA) Mexico City October 15, 1975
17.87 3 1.7 Mike Conley (USA) San Jose June 26, 1987
Shot Put
23.12 Randy Barnes United States UCLA May 20, 1990
23.06 Ulf Timmermann East Germany Khania May 22, 1988
22.91 Alessandro Andrei Italy Viareggio August 12, 1987
22.86 Brian Oldfield United States El Paso May 10, 1975
22.75 Werner Günthör Switzerland Bern August 23, 1988
22.67 Kevin Toth United States Lawrence April 19, 2003
22.64 Udo Beyer East Germany Berlin August 20, 1986
22.54 Christian Cantwell United States Gresham June 5, 2004
22.52 John Brenner United States Walnut April 26, 1987
22.51 Adam Nelson United States Gresham May 18, 2002
Get the point? the records are NOT dominated by people in the 2000s, most of the records happened in the 90s and 80s. Bob Beamon even still holds a record all the way back from 1968.
Now take into account that boxing is WAY more than just explosive strength and coordination. The skill department alone makes a gargantuam difference.
2. "Boxing techniques have evolved, fighters of the past werent nearly as skilled"
first off, if that was true, then why would present day fighters emulate greats of the past?
second off, if that was true, then how could...
George Foreman have become HW champ 21 years after his prime?
Bernard Hopkins still be embarressing guys at 45 years of age?
Roberto Duran beat a top 5 middleweight at 45 years old?
Archie Moore still being champ in his 40s?
Evander Holyfield at 45 still deserving a decision over a top 5 present day fighter?
so on and so forth. flat out: Boxing has not evolved tremendously, otherwise these old guys would not be still around simply because of their skill level.
3. "The population has increased, so there is a bigger talent pool"
Ill quote someone elses old post.
to be fair, this is not taking into account the whole world. and if anyone has any stats to bring that up, I wholeheartedly welcome you to share them. but overall it seems the level populairty of boxing seems to have gone down...there are less boxing gyms, less boxers...in general its harder to become a boxer and less people are choosing to do so.
so if anything the talent pool has shrunk
Hopefully I put to rest a few of the myths perpetuating around this place...although its more likely that if someone previously thought that then I wont change their mind because theyre stubborn but I at least got them thinking.
1. "Today's boxers are athletically superior"
Hear this one a LOT. people usually state this is true due to the progression of bench pressing maxes or something. But heres the thing that gets you: boxing is more about explosive strength and coordination. Take a look at some other sports that use that...
High Jump
1. 2.45 Javier Sotomayor Cuba Salamanca 23 July 1993
2. 2.42 Patrik Sjöberg Sweden Stockholm 30 June 1987
3. 2.41 Igor Paklin Soviet Union Kobe 4 September 1985
4. 2.40 Rudolf Povarnitsyn Soviet Union Donetsk 11 August 1985
Sorin Matei Romania Bratislava 20 June 1990
Charles Austin USA Zürich 7 August 1991
Vyacheslav Voronin Russia London 5 August 2000
8. 2.39 Zhu Jianhua China Eberstadt 10 June 1984
Hollis Conway USA Norman 30 July 1989
Long Jump
8.95 0.3 Mike Powell United States Tokyo August 30, 1991
8.90A 2.0 Bob Beamon United States Mexico City October 18, 1968
8.87 -0.2 Carl Lewis United States Tokyo August 30, 1991
8.86A 1.9 Robert Emmiyan Soviet Union Tsakhkadzor May 22, 1987
8.74 1.4 Larry Myricks United States Indianapolis July 18, 1988
8.74A 2.0 Erick Walder United States El Paso April 2, 1994
8.74 -1.2 Dwight Phillips United States Eugene June 7, 2009
8.73 1.2 Irving Saladino Panama Hengelo May 24, 2008
Triple Jump
18.29 1 1.3 Jonathan Edwards (GBR) Gothenburg August 7, 1995
18.09 2 -0.4 Kenny Harrison (USA) Atlanta July 27, 1996
17.98 1.2 Teddy Tamgho (FRA) New York City June 12, 2010
17.97 1.5 Willie Banks (USA) Indianapolis June 16, 1985
17.92 1.6 Khristo Markov (BUL) Rome August 31, 1987
17.92 1.9 James Beckford (JAM) Odessa May 20, 1995
17.90 0.4 Jadel Gregório (BRA) Belém May 20, 2007
17.90 1.0 Vladimir Inozemtsev (UKR) Bratislava June 20, 1990
17.89 0.0 Joăo Carlos de Oliveira (BRA) Mexico City October 15, 1975
17.87 3 1.7 Mike Conley (USA) San Jose June 26, 1987
Shot Put
23.12 Randy Barnes United States UCLA May 20, 1990
23.06 Ulf Timmermann East Germany Khania May 22, 1988
22.91 Alessandro Andrei Italy Viareggio August 12, 1987
22.86 Brian Oldfield United States El Paso May 10, 1975
22.75 Werner Günthör Switzerland Bern August 23, 1988
22.67 Kevin Toth United States Lawrence April 19, 2003
22.64 Udo Beyer East Germany Berlin August 20, 1986
22.54 Christian Cantwell United States Gresham June 5, 2004
22.52 John Brenner United States Walnut April 26, 1987
22.51 Adam Nelson United States Gresham May 18, 2002
Get the point? the records are NOT dominated by people in the 2000s, most of the records happened in the 90s and 80s. Bob Beamon even still holds a record all the way back from 1968.
Now take into account that boxing is WAY more than just explosive strength and coordination. The skill department alone makes a gargantuam difference.
2. "Boxing techniques have evolved, fighters of the past werent nearly as skilled"
first off, if that was true, then why would present day fighters emulate greats of the past?
second off, if that was true, then how could...
George Foreman have become HW champ 21 years after his prime?
Bernard Hopkins still be embarressing guys at 45 years of age?
Roberto Duran beat a top 5 middleweight at 45 years old?
Archie Moore still being champ in his 40s?
Evander Holyfield at 45 still deserving a decision over a top 5 present day fighter?
so on and so forth. flat out: Boxing has not evolved tremendously, otherwise these old guys would not be still around simply because of their skill level.
3. "The population has increased, so there is a bigger talent pool"
Ill quote someone elses old post.
=ExxardFan]I'll go one better than that:
From "The Arc of Boxing by Mike Silver", chapter 3:
In 1955 there were 238 professional boxers licensed in Massachsetts, by 2007 there were only 42. Prior to WWII there were over 500. If thats an accurate indicator then it was about 45x easier to become champion in 2007 than it was in 1955.
Another set of figures from the same source estimates 5,000-6,000 licensed boxers US wide in the 1950s, and 2,850 by 2006. If those stats are accurate then it's 16x easier to become champion now than it was in the 1950s.
Still scary numbers none the less.
Now I'm guessing you're struggling to understand where the figure of 45x comes from? OK you take the multiple of the number of (other) licensed boxers, then multiply that by the number of additional weight divisions, then you multiply that by the number of governing bodies issuing titles. So 5.6 x 4 x 2 = 45.33333333333...(ish).
From "The Arc of Boxing by Mike Silver", chapter 3:
In 1955 there were 238 professional boxers licensed in Massachsetts, by 2007 there were only 42. Prior to WWII there were over 500. If thats an accurate indicator then it was about 45x easier to become champion in 2007 than it was in 1955.
Another set of figures from the same source estimates 5,000-6,000 licensed boxers US wide in the 1950s, and 2,850 by 2006. If those stats are accurate then it's 16x easier to become champion now than it was in the 1950s.
Still scary numbers none the less.
Now I'm guessing you're struggling to understand where the figure of 45x comes from? OK you take the multiple of the number of (other) licensed boxers, then multiply that by the number of additional weight divisions, then you multiply that by the number of governing bodies issuing titles. So 5.6 x 4 x 2 = 45.33333333333...(ish).
so if anything the talent pool has shrunk
Hopefully I put to rest a few of the myths perpetuating around this place...although its more likely that if someone previously thought that then I wont change their mind because theyre stubborn but I at least got them thinking.