Thoughts on Sweet Pea vs GGG

[DreamFighter]

Gomez and Jones were battle worn from tough fights over the course of their career. Sanchez brutalized Gomez. Gomez and Jones were getting towards the end of it. Gomez only fought four more fights after Nelson, going 3-1and getting KO'd by a journeyman.

this doesnt address that he was at world level, with world title, fighting title level, on unbeaten streak, at opposite ends of the age spectrum.
whilst jones was at bum level, with no title, fighting no title level, on a mess of losses and bum wins, and might have been actually mid40s.

my friend I thought I asked you to address the three points, you addressed none.
Please do so, i am rooting for you. I am big for against the odds heroic comebacks.

[R-Hand Southpaw]

Yeah the Ward offer imo was pretty clearly just an attempt for Ward to gain some publicity at that time...and it worked.

And yeah I agree on the weight stuff...guys say stuff like that all the time lol...'yeah I'll fight anyone etc'...you still have to iron out the terms - money, venue, time, weight etc...that's where it gets hard to make the fights.

Yep. Like I said people find reasons to hate GGG even if they're legit or not

[Boxing_1013]

Yep. Like I said people find reasons to hate GGG even if they're legit or not

Yeah it's tiresome man...I feel like the lack of substantive debate about GGG is one of the worst things on this site...there is valid stuff to critique him for, like any fighter...but 99% of the criticism he faces is so out of left field and over the top, that it just kind of ruins any real debate about him.

[john l]

Not head to head of course...but resume wise it is interesting that one dominated with decision wins over good fighters, and one with KO wins over good fighters...both having the same number of wins, and about the same number of good wins.

Then in their two high-profile big fights, they got an official draw and loss to a Mexican star, when many feel they deserved better in those 2 fights.

Sweet Pea moved up the weights, while GGG stayed at 160...Sweet Pea had another disputed loss early in his career and a couple of losses late...GGG officially with only the one loss and draw to Canelo.

Anyway, thought it was interesting when comparing the two in another thread...any thoughts? The draw and loss for Sweet Pea vs ODLH and Chavez just reminded me of GGG's with Canelo, and then the dominance vs good fighters they both showed was similar...I know a lot on here hate GGG and rate Sweet Pea so curious as to what I'm missing.

Wins over Chavez, Nelson, Buddy top GGG win over Canelo, and also the fact he very well could have got dec over ODLH past his prime. 4 div champ who was never beat clear till Tito well past his prime. 1st fight with Ramirez was worst dec in last 40yrs, even worse then Chavez. Easy choice imo, and I like GGG.

[DumpkinsPlus5]

I see what the thread started is trying to do, but I think he made the wrong comparison. I don't think he knew enough about Whitaker's career to make the point he's trying to make. He's was trying to point out a bias between the old school era and the new school era, basically saying "how could one guy be a certified ATG when he has a similar resume to another guy who isn't considered an ATG?"

Problem is, there resume is not similar. Old man Whitaker damn near beat a bigger prime De La Hoya. What he showed in that "loss" is more impressive than GGG's whole career. There is a point to be made about the way boxing fans inflate the legacies of the legends of old, this is just the wrong example to show it.

[Boxing_1013]

Wins over Chavez, Nelson, Buddy top GGG win over Canelo, and also the fact he very well could have got dec over ODLH past his prime. 4 div champ who was never beat clear till Tito well past his prime. 1st fight with Ramirez was worst dec in last 40yrs, even worse then Chavez. Easy choice imo, and I like GGG.

Fair enough...good post, thanks John...I agree that for how we personally view fighters - we have to factor in our opinions of how we scored those big fights, how we felt they performed in those big fights, etc.

For example...I felt GGG beat Canelo both times, and I think Canelo is a great fighter...so that elevates GGG a bit for me relative to some...but at the same time, I think GGG could have performed better vs Canelo in both fights, and even vs Jacobs and SD in recent fights...so that takes him down a notch or two for me as well...I still feel overall he was a great fighter and accomplished a lot...as did PW, was certainly not taking a swipe at him with any of that.

I see what the thread started is trying to do, but I think he made the wrong comparison. I don't think he knew enough about Whitaker's career to make the point he's trying to make. He's was trying to point out a bias between the old school era and the new school era, basically saying "how could one guy be a certified ATG when he has a similar resume to another guy who isn't considered an ATG?"

Problem is, there resume is not similar. Old man Whitaker damn near beat a bigger prime De La Hoya. What he showed in that "loss" is more impressive than GGG's whole career. There is a point to be made about the way boxing fans inflate the legacies of the legends of old, this is just the wrong example to show it.

Fair enough, good post, thanks for the reply...for the record, I was more intrigued by the fact that they had the very similar story in their 2 fights each with the great Mexican A-sides...and then yeah I feel the rest of what they did was quite similar - they both dominated, in different ways, against similar opposition as well...but that was more of an add-on to further the comparison and get some convo started about them and those 2 big fights in particular.

In any event, I do feel GGG had a really solid run at MW and his run stacks up well with a lot other past greats...some, many really on here, disagree...which is fine...I think some guys on here know their stuff a bit and come at stuff from a rather neutral POV, and I like the debate and hearing a good view from the other side...if some good info is presented, I always reserve the right to change my mind.

Others, well I don't think they would give some guys a bit of credit regardless of what the guy does lol...so I kind of take their points with a grain of salt...and unfortunately that goes for a ton of guys on here, from all different backgrounds lol.

But yes...thanks for the reply..and was not trying to slight PW at all...as mentioned, I love lefties who can box, and he was one of the best in that mold to ever do it...my direct comparison to his entire resume to GGG's was more of a causal comparison, and in truth, I am quite high on what GGG accomplished, so while I was a bit casual with the comparison (as I feel it is apt) I guess some others could see it (who don't like GGG) and feel offended.

But good post, thanks again.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

...dude he won a 15 round MD, at home in PR, vs Rocky Lockridge...and then got KOed by Alfredo Layne in his next fight.

Not really sure why you're still in this thread anyway...but how can anyone who claims to keep it real really try and say Gomez was at his best around that time...ridiculous man.

This is what people on here do all the time...they start out 1st with what they want to be true...and defend that by any means necessary, not taking into account what actually happened.

Just say - Gomez was a good win but it probably wasn't quite as good as it looks on paper - it's not that hard...but it's online so people want to get catty and act like a know it all.

Are you for real? Gomez moves up in weight and beats the LINEAL super featherweight champion in admittedly a close fight. But that’s not good enough apparently...😂😂

I can guarantee you this Nelson beating Gomez or Gomez beating Lockridge was a far greater win than anything on Jacobs record.

Why are you even quoting me? You know I’m not gonna take your delusional sh** serious anymore.

Clown...

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Wins over Chavez, Nelson, Buddy top GGG win over Canelo, and also the fact he very well could have got dec over ODLH past his prime. 4 div champ who was never beat clear till Tito well past his prime. 1st fight with Ramirez was worst dec in last 40yrs, even worse then Chavez. Easy choice imo, and I like GGG.

Don’t bother bud, the guy clearly has an agenda, he literally compared Azumah Nelson to Jacobs, Lemieux and Murray.😂

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

I see what the thread started is trying to do, but I think he made the wrong comparison. I don't think he knew enough about Whitaker's career to make the point he's trying to make. He's was trying to point out a bias between the old school era and the new school era, basically saying "how could one guy be a certified ATG when he has a similar resume to another guy who isn't considered an ATG?"

Problem is, there resume is not similar. Old man Whitaker damn near beat a bigger prime De La Hoya. What he showed in that "loss" is more impressive than GGG's whole career. There is a point to be made about the way boxing fans inflate the legacies of the legends of old, this is just the wrong example to show it.

Exactly this... this guy clearly doesn’t know his history. His original comparison was decent but his lack of knowledge has been completely exposed.

[Boxing_1013]

Are you for real? Gomez moves up in weight and beats the LINEAL super featherweight champion in admittedly a close fight. But that’s not good enough apparently...����

I can guarantee you this Nelson beating Gomez or Gomez beating Lockridge was a far greater win than anything on Jacobs record.

Why are you even quoting me? You know I’m not gonna take your delusional sh** serious anymore.

Clown...

? you're in my thread dude lol...yeah the Gomez win for Nelson was pretty good as I said...also I am consistent with how I evaluate fighters...and Gomez fought all his fights at home, and then won a shady MD over Lockridge at home after the Nelson fight, then got KOed in his only other real fight...that is not super impressive to me - as far as his level at the time of those fights -, and wouldn't be regardless of who did it...spin whatever you want though man, doesn't bother me.

No offense but you seem like a typical weirdo on here man...who doesn't want to talk boxing when they get into a debate...but instead wants to twist whatever facts come out to suit the initial narrative they started out with, and then gets really emotional about rather trivial things as well...it's just weird.

But keep on swearing on Jeff Fenech and saying Gomez was his best self there...I don't really care...but yeah you're in my thread bud so if you don't like it here you can always bounce...no one is asking you to be here.

Try and be a bit more polite as well when in my threads, not just to me but others with whom you may disagree...we are adults and should be able to debate like adults...hope you have a great day there as well!