Rubin Hurricane Carter: Guilty or Innocent?

[mikeg1224]

Innocent

I saw the movie and it made a compelling case for his innocence. Personally, I fail to see a motive for Carter and Artis to savagely slay the victims.

Judging Carter on his boxing career alone, I would conclude that it was less than stellar. He had one signature win with a Round 1 KO of Emile Griffith and a string of losses to most ranked MWs including Joey Giardello, Joey Archer, Luis Rodriguez twice including being KOed, and Dick Tiger. Moreover, he only had 19 KOs in his 40 fights [28 W and 12 L] or less than 50%; so much for his vaunted punching power!

[The Old LefHook]

I saw the movie and it made a compelling case for his innocence. Personally, I fail to see a motive for Carter and Artis to savagely slay the victims.

Judging Carter on his boxing career alone, I would conclude that it was less than stellar. He had one signature win with a Round 1 KO of Emile Griffith and a string of losses to most ranked MWs including Joey Giardello, Joey Archer, Luis Rodriguez twice including being KOed, and Dick Tiger. Moreover, he only had 19 KOs in his 40 fights [28 W and 12 L] or less than 50%; so much for his vaunted punching power!

No, not so much for his vaunted punching power, so much for your vaunted observation. It is well known that Rubin did not know how to set up his punches, and was helpless against a mover. He needed lots of cooperation from his foe. That cuts way into your KO percentage, no matter how hard you punch. You have to observe the effect of his punches that do land well.

[mikeg1224]

Dick Tiger, who was a friend of mine, was not a mover; rather he was a pure counter puncher. However, he was great on defense and Carter was unable to land anything effectively. BTW, only Bob Foster managed to catch Dick with his left hook and put him to sleep.

[The Old LefHook]

I am not sure what your point is, or that you are even sure. If your point is that Carter did not have great power, you can't win. Guys with great defenses who are not particularly big movers, are still hard to hit for a mediocre boxer like Carter. That is what he was, in most other aspects of boxing--medicore. A giant punch will not normally do a mediocre fighter much good. He had particularly stationary footwork, as if opponents would eventually grow bored playing chicken and come to him.

I have been paying attention to boxing for over 50 years. I have seen so many feared punchers fall by the wayside into convenient ditches of history because a big punch is all they had. It is one of the more frequent phenomena in boxing. Believe me, as decades pass, you will see it again and again yourself until it leaves an impression like a dent in a bed selpt on for years.

Most of the guys who get you excited in their early careers are going to get their asses kicked by someone who knows how to box better. It is the same for all of us. Our prospects usually fail somewhere, as do, of course, most prospects in general.

Big punchers with little else even have a particular historical way of being exposed. They get a facial from someone who couldn't stand there and punch with them but can turn them into a humiliated, helpless mess. Since we were waiting for our prospect to routinely cave in another head, we are shocked. Instead, he was routinely outboxed. One of the oldest stories in boxing. They knock out a lot of guys who do not know how to box, then they reach the ones who can, and a sense of their DOOM dawns on us for the first time if we have not been watching closely.

[The Old LefHook]

If Dick Tiger was a friend of yours, I would rather hear about that. He is probably underrated.

[mikeg1224]

I met Dick through my friend, Tommy, who worked like Dick as a security guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Although Dick had made significant money as a fighter, the Nigerian government had stolen it all. So, Dick had to work to support himself. He was a first-class gentleman and we were all saddened by his unexpected death when he was in his early forties.

[mikeg1224]

Perhaps I could have made my point clearer.

You stated that Carter was helpless against a mover.

I added that Carter was also helpless against a good defensive fighter like Dick Tiger.

[The Old LefHook]

Right. In general, Carter was helpless against good boxers period.

[Hamilcar Barca]

When I was a kid my mother told me the story of Rubin Carter when I first heard Dylan's song. It's still my favorite Dylan song by far.

Later in life, my profession led to an interest into famous crimes, one I still harbor. I spent time reading about the case, of which there is copious information available on line. Just google graphic witness/hurricane carter.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone cannot come away not convinced he's guilty. Has there been inherent bias against minorities historically in criminal cases?
Absolutely. That doesn't mean he's not guilty.

It's been my experience people with agenda driven ideologies will fixate on one or two discrepancies or procedural errors to further their narratives, and ignore a staggering amount of evidence, circumstantial or not, that points to a nearly certain conclusion.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

lets also keep in mind we already know it wasnt a fair trial. two black men cant get a fair trial in todays america let alone in the 60's. certainly not when charged with the murder of white folks. they had testimony that the culprits were black. at that point they are going to throw a ****** in jail, period. doesnt have to be the right one. there were no other suspects, meaning they were ****ed from the get go.

the legal system cant be trusted, someone saying they went through the court proceedings means nothing. it wasnt a fair trial, thats just not how america works.

While I agree that in the 60s a black man most likely wouldn't get a fair trial but in today's america black men get fair trials all the time. OJ Simpson walked free if you forgot...if he was white he would have been sentenced to hell practically.

If you don't have money you might as well take a plea bargain because whether you are white or black, the justice system is set up to make money and without spending $10,000+ on a lawyer to defend you and for consultation for just a serious non violent crime you won't walk free. Guilty or not.