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Old 02-05-2020, 12:14 AM #61
Blond Beast Blond Beast is offline
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Originally Posted by Citizen Koba View Post
This is what I see, whichever way I look at it it was an excellent fight between a pair of almost perfectly matched fighters, neither of whom was really able to impose their will, or their skill over 24 rounds of elite level boxing.

I can watch this one over and over and each time I see somrething new in it.

Only dumbasses are the guys who claim it was some kinda domination or blowout or clear victory either way.
Well put. I remember Kellerman saying about the first fight “Fighters play into eachothers strengths” as if ggg’s come forward style and Nelos counter punching would result in sum crazy six knock down affair. But he was promoting the fight, and I assume lying. Strong fighters stymie each other. They aren’t all of a sudden going to double their punch output against a great opponent. It was what it was, two close fights, both looking more human than ever. In a fight where there was no knock downs, no cuts, nobody got really wobbled, no 10-8 rounds, I’m surprised at all the colourful adjectives sum fans use to describe how dominant it was for whoever they thought won. It doesn’t leave them much room to describe other fights. Plus if u have a son or daughter boxing fan they will question u one day...
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:30 AM #62
ReggieKray ReggieKray is offline
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Should have been a unanimous decision. They had to throw the draw in there to make it controversial. Great fight and its ridiculous that people would call that a draw.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:44 AM #63
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Originally Posted by Robbie Barrett View Post
Canelo landed the cleaner harder shots in both fights.
Yes if you don't count any of GGG's clean hard jabs
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lol
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:56 AM #64
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Cool vid man thanks.

I don't see how anyone can score both fights as anything but clear GGG wins...8-4 (maybe 7-5 2nd fight)... unless you just don't score a lot of GGG's work...that jab lands often and is a really good, scoring, punch.

Canelo of course did good things in both fights as well...and very impressively held the center of the ring in the 2nd fight vs GGG for most of the fight...but he still got outworked most rounds, and you don't give extra points to one guy and not score the other guy's work just because...GGG's stamina and workrate were/are just tough matchups for Canelo who fights in spurts.

Great fights though...if they do it again, Canelo may be able to win it clean this time...though I think honestly GGG would still outwork him most rounds...just depends on how much GGG is really fading and if Canelo can maybe hurt him this time.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:13 AM #65
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Originally Posted by Robbie Barrett View Post
Canelo landed the cleaner harder shots in both fights.
He still lost the first fight and arguably lost the 2nd.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:13 AM #66
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
golovkin always took punsihsment, win lose or draw.

but the second canelo fight was the first real beating he took. it will signal the beginningof th eend of his career. you rarely, if ever, see guys taking flush body shots and headshots for years and years with long careers. golovkin's style has overstayed its welcome. you need an unshakeable chin, youthful powers of recovery, and the confidence of an undefeated fighter in his prime to fight like that every time out. you can do it once if you need to, maybe a few times over the course of many years, but golokvin took bombs from everybody. curtis stevens, willie monroe, these guys all took some of their best shots on golovkin and he relied on his chin over all else.

we all know he's been on the sldie for a while, but was his career at its end? it's at its end now. guy arguably lost last time out to a euro who wouldn't hold his jock in his prime. he looks lost out there. like the guy remembers who the killer that he used to be is, and understands his old identity and that it's the only thing that made him elite, yet he can't fight that way any more. he's rich, depleted. he can't pull the trigger and his time as an elite is over.


i thought the first fight was a fair decision. the second fight really wasn't that close. canelo gave him a beating and golovkin gave in for the first time in his life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxing_1013 View Post
Cool vid man thanks.

I don't see how anyone can score both fights as anything but clear GGG wins...8-4 (maybe 7-5 2nd fight)... unless you just don't score a lot of GGG's work...that jab lands often and is a really good, scoring, punch.

Canelo of course did good things in both fights as well...and very impressively held the center of the ring in the 2nd fight vs GGG for most of the fight...but he still got outworked most rounds, and you don't give extra points to one guy and not score the other guy's work just because...GGG's stamina and workrate were/are just tough matchups for Canelo who fights in spurts.

Great fights though...if they do it again, Canelo may be able to win it clean this time...though I think honestly GGG would still outwork him most rounds...just depends on how much GGG is really fading and if Canelo can maybe hurt him this time.
I thought your post had some good points about GGG...but then I also wondered what exactly you were seeing in there in that fight and some of his others lol...for example GGG took more of a 'beating' vs Ouma about 10 years prior...no real debate imo about which of those fights was physically tougher for him...and I wouldn't say overall that GGG has taken that much damage/punishment really...he's actually pretty cautious when he needs to be.

And I mean everybody has taken some shots in their careers lol...look at even Floyd vs Maidana for example...the key is to not take prolonged punishment like that in fights and get stopped/hurt etc...and GGG so far hasn't had really very many moments like that...his only really 'worrisome' fight imo was his latest one vs Sergei, so I think your point about that fight is very fair in a way.

And I do agree that he is probably slipping a bit...though I think the fight he recently had vs SD was also a case of facing a hungry guy who is really talented and knew this was maybe his last chance to win the big one...GGG certainly imho had a much tougher and more competitive fight vs Sergei than either fight he had vs Canelo...your eyes should tell you that, as well as any punch data.

Again, Canelo did some really good things in both fights...but yeah the only way imho one can give either one to Canelo, or not give GGG 2 clear wins, is to not score a lot of GGG's work in those fights...I guess that's why people want to not score his jab or something? I mean it's bizarre really lol...like Teddy Atlas said after the 2nd fight - 'do we just not score the jab anymore?'

But anyway...yeah I think Canelo really did some very good things in both fights, definitely fight 2...but I think it's a bit cheap to not give GGG the credit he deserves in fight 2 for really still winning that fight as well.

Even at 37, to really outwork a prime Canelo...I mean I actually think it's pretty impressive...certainly didn't see this dominant performance from Canelo there...again I'm not entirely sure how a forum of boxing guys, who should know how to score fight pretty well, swear that Canelo was dominating that 2nd fight when GGG was doing some really really good work in almost every round, and generally outworking Canelo in every round.

I can't find one Canelo round in either fight where he lands both the best shot or shots of the rounds AND also outlands GGG by a few punches or so...that says a lot really!! Do you guys have an example of such a round, or a clear Canelo round in either fight? And not based on what the Vegas judges say...I mean a round that you guys can point to and say 'this is an obvious Canelo round'...genuinely curious...never seen one.

Not to pick on your avatar..but it's just funny the way we see things sometimes...Ward is given two very fortunate official wins vs Kovalev in his fights...and GGG very unfortunate to have 1 loss and 1 draw officially vs Canelo.

But some see the 2nd Canelo fight as a blight on GGG's legacy (even though it was a clear win imho)...and I guess some give Ward a lot of credit for his official win vs Kov in fight 1 (though that was clearly a bad decision as well and a clear loss).

In any event, I don't quite get your logic on all of that stuff lol, but good post my friend!


Quote:
Originally Posted by aboutfkntime View Post
good post !

it was clearly obvious who won that fight

even after the first fight... it was clearly obvious who is the better-skilled, more well-rounded, fighter...
I would be interested to see what rounds you guys gave to each fighter in each fight...I don't think the 2 fights were that hard to score personally.

If Canelo fought GGG's fight and vice versa, I would score both 8-4 to Canelo...all I can say really...when you outwork a guy like that in almost every round, and he struggles to win any clear round vs you...you should win both fights.

Last edited by Boxing_1013; 02-05-2020 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:39 AM #67
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
but the second canelo fight was the first real beating he took. it will signal the beginningof th eend of his career.
i thought the first fight was a fair decision. the second fight really wasn't that close. canelo gave him a beating and golovkin gave in for the first time in his life.
Sorry but just realized I never commented on one main head-scratching comment I saw in your post...on the bold...most people acknowledge GGG raised his level in the 2nd half of the fight...I thought the first half was pretty even, with GGG again outworking Canelo most rounds, but Canelo having a few rounds where he landed the best shot or shots of the round so there were some close ones there.

But most seem to give GGG most of the later ones...I personally can't see how GGG doesn't get 9 10 and 11 every time...and 7 8 and 12 were all close rounds as well, with no clear ones to Canelo...4-2 for GGG is probably the worst he could do in those last 6, and is I think always how I've scored those last 6.

Think you make a good point about GGG possibly taking some lasting damage in that fight and maybe the first fight too...at his age those were a couple of wars that may leave some marks on him.

But to say that he gave in...I mean that just kind of takes away from your credibility there...he really raised his level at the end of the fight.

GGG has some stuff you can criticize him for, like any other fighter...but comments like that kind of take away from valid criticism he does/should receive.

We could all probably agree that he could have been more impressive vs Canelo or Jacobs or Derevy in those 4 fights...but he certainly didn't give in to Canelo lol...he raised his level in those championship rounds while Canelo was fading...and imho GGG secured the win, clearly, with his performance in those last few rounds.

Again, Canelo is a great fighter and does a lot of really good things...but he just got outworked in both fights...his stamina issues combined with GGG's stamina and workrate just meant a lot of rounds where GGG won by volume...and then there were a lot of close rounds in there as well...and very few if any clear Canelo rounds.

Canelo could honestly take a cue from Sergei in his fight with GGG...with how active Sergei was...it nullified GGG's own workrate and took away GGG's advantage of piling up some rounds in his fights by just outworking his opponent.

GGG is fortunate he dropped Sergei in round 1 and opened the big cut in round which should give him that round...otherwise GGG very easily could have taken a legit L in that one...and not just a Vegas scorecard L
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But yeah in any event good posts man.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:18 AM #68
Sweet Scions Sweet Scions is offline
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Originally Posted by Mario040481 View Post
Hey, I have kept forgetting to ask you if you have ever came across a commentary free broadcast of the first fight? I spent a bit of time a few weeks ago searching but turned up nothing. You?
Sadly no. I was hoping that might be your next trick, haha. I've actually been able to find quite a few fights (almost always from Euro broadcast) with ambient audio only and no commentary on Russian p2p trackers, but not that one. But it's also been awhile since I really looked...there could be one on youtube now for all I know. If I ever find anything I'll let you know.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:28 AM #69
TheMyspaceDayz TheMyspaceDayz is online now
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Anyone who even suggests the Canelo/GGG fights weren’t close has been emotionally compromised. Can’t trust them on any matter Canelo related. Same goes for those who say a third fight isn’t needed and it’s time for Demetrius Andrade, Callum Smith or Ryota Murata.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:46 AM #70
Mario040481 Mario040481 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sweet Scions View Post
Sadly no. I was hoping that might be your next trick, haha. I've actually been able to find quite a few fights (almost always from Euro broadcast) with ambient audio only and no commentary on Russian p2p trackers, but not that one. But it's also been awhile since I really looked...there could be one on youtube now for all I know. If I ever find anything I'll let you know.
Yes, I wanna do that "trick" as well, yet to come across a broadcast/file done in the manner that I could do it though. I have NO idea how hard it is to actually just excise various audio "tracks" from a completed source
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