Obscure ref re 19th century boxing -please help!

[CromCruach]

Hi,

I once read "Royal Flash" a novel in the series of the "Flashman Papers". This novel was written as a parody of "The prisoner of Zenda" novel. Now, Mr Fraser, the author, would routinely incorporate real historical figures among the fiction he wrote. For example, in 1 passage in the book, he writes about a well-known 19th century boxer in England who challenges Bismarck to a fight - the fight requires the boxer to not move his feet at all. In the (fictional) passage, the boxer manages to humiliate Bismarck by being able to move his body away from Bismarck's blows while still not moving his feet. Anyway, while the fight with Bismarck was fictional, I am reasonably certain that that 19th century boxer was a real historical character. Does anyone know who he was? I do not have the book with me. Also, would a brilliant boxer indeed be able to avoid ever being hit if faced with a relative amateur boxer, while being forced to keep his feet in the same position? Thanks!

[ShoulderRoll]

Look at prime Floyd Mayweather Jr to see real life examples of standing "in the pocket" without getting hit.

As to the famous 19th century boxer the only big names that come to mind are Tom Cribb and Jem Mace. Mace was known for having a clever defense so it was probably him.

[OctoberRed]

Look at prime Floyd Mayweather Jr to see real life examples of standing "in the pocket" without getting hit.

As to the famous 19th century boxer the only big names that come to mind are Tom Cribb and Jem Mace. Mace was known for having a clever defense so it was probably him.

Now you have me thinking if it was Mace as well.

[QueensburyRules]

Hi,

I once read "Royal Flash" a novel in the series of the "Flashman Papers". This novel was written as a parody of "The prisoner of Zenda" novel. Now, Mr Fraser, the author, would routinely incorporate real historical figures among the fiction he wrote. For example, in 1 passage in the book, he writes about a well-known 19th century boxer in England who challenges Bismarck to a fight - the fight requires the boxer to not move his feet at all. In the (fictional) passage, the boxer manages to humiliate Bismarck by being able to move his body away from Bismarck's blows while still not moving his feet. Anyway, while the fight with Bismarck was fictional, I am reasonably certain that that 19th century boxer was a real historical character. Does anyone know who he was? I do not have the book with me. Also, would a brilliant boxer indeed be able to avoid ever being hit if faced with a relative amateur boxer, while being forced to keep his feet in the same position? Thanks!

- -Aussie Young Griffo yer Culprit.

In the top 1% of gifted boxers, he squandered his prime in drink. As his career faded in his haze, to earn $$$ for his drink he'd challenge the foolish to hi him as he strode feet planted infront of them.

Rough synopsis here with record link for review.

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Young_Griffo

[OctoberRed]

- -Aussie Young Griffo yer Culprit.

In the top 1% of gifted boxers, he squandered his prime in drink. As his career faded in his haze, to earn $$$ for his drink he'd challenge the foolish to hi him as he strode feet planted infront of them.

Rough synopsis here with record link for review.

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Young_Griffo

Queen comes in with the scoop!

[Bundana]

"Royal Flash" is set in the 1840s, so the timeline is all wrong for Griffo (who also wasn't British).

Mr. Fraser was a big fan of iconic bare-knuckle fighters... one of which was HOFer John Gully. Who not only was an early 19th century English heavyweight champion, but later became a member of the British Parliament (1832-37).

In the film version (1975), Gully is played by none other than Henry Cooper... who makes a fool of Otto Von Bismarck (Oliver Reed) in the sparring incident mentioned (approx. 15 min. into the movie).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdiPE495698

[QueensburyRules]

"Royal Flash" is set in the 1840s, so the timeline is all wrong for Griffo (who also wasn't British).

Mr. Fraser was a big fan of iconic bare-knuckle fighters... one of which was HOFer John Gully. Who not only was an early 19th century English heavyweight champion, but later became a member of the British Parliament (1832-37).

In the film version (1975), Gully is played by none other than Henry Cooper... who makes a fool of Otto Von Bismarck (Oliver Reed) in the sparring incident mentioned (approx. 15 min. into the movie).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdiPE495698

- -I do believe Aussies a part of the British Commonwealth and able to fight for their titles.

As far as the movie setting, that's as irrevelant as a time machine in the future or the past. It's fiction, so the only question would be if Fraser was on the same timeline as Griffo was in his career.

If not Griffo, perhaps Bendigo could be the reference.

[Bundana]

As you well know Griffo, as an Aussie who never lived or boxed in the UK, was not eligible to fight for a British title.

"Royal Flash" was the 2nd in a series of 12 books, published from 1969 to 2005 by George MacDonald Fraser.

The "star" of these books is a drunken coward, General Harry Paget Flashman, whose exploits from 1839-94 are chronicled in the series.

Flashman is of course completely fictional - but the settings and history of the events, and the people with whom he interacts are all largely based around historical events and individuals.

Which is why he didn't chose (for example) Joe Louis for the Bismarck incident, as it would be ludicrous and make no sense at all to have Louis suddenly pop up in the 1840s. And of course Griffo wouldn't fit either.

If you look up the movie on IMDB, you'll find that the screenplay was written by Mr. Fraser - based on his own book.

[QueensburyRules]

As you well know Griffo, as an Aussie who never lived or boxed in the UK, was not eligible to fight for a British title.

"Royal Flash" was the 2nd in a series of 12 books, published from 1969 to 2005 by George MacDonald Fraser.

The "star" of these books is a drunken coward, General Harry Paget Flashman, whose exploits from 1839-94 are chronicled in the series.

Flashman is of course completely fictional - but the settings and history of the events, and the people with whom he interacts are all largely based around historical events and individuals.Which is why he didn't chose (for example) Joe Louis for the Bismarck incident, as it would be ludicrous and make no sense at all to have Louis suddenly pop up in the 1840s. And of course Griffo wouldn't fit either.

If you look up the movie on IMDB, you'll find that the screenplay was written by Mr. Fraser - based on his own book.

- -So you admit Fraser well could know about Griffo such that the character of the fighter could well have been the likely choice for the portrayal.

I coulda written in the character of Griffo in my Ohenry novella had I wished, but he'd have been irrelevant to the historical backdrop I had Ohenry in, a historical boxing match he well could've covered while still Wiiliam Sydney Porter working for the Houston Post .

Thanks for the affirmation...

[Bundana]

I don't know, why I have to "admit" that Fraser knew about Griffo. If he knew boxing history he probably did.

What we're talking about, is whether or not Fraser used him as Bismarck's "opponent" in "Royal Flash" - which he didn't. He used John Gully, who was around in the 1840s, at the same time as Bismarck. Griffo wasn't born until 1869.