Is Roberto Duran the best lightweight of all time?

[brownpimp88]

Duran and Pernell are the two lightweight kings that had the most success at higher weights, therefore P4P they deserve to be ranked higher. Benny Leonard moved up to 147 and lost to ted kid lewis, it might be ruled a draw but the ghetto wizard was indeed given a complete gift.

There is no doubt in my mind, that head to head, duran and whitaker are the best.

[Yogi]

Benny Leonard moved up to 147 and lost to ted kid lewis, it might be ruled a draw but the ghetto wizard was indeed given a complete gift.

What's your sources on that opinion, Pimp?

I'm just wondering because I've read a few sources on the fight, and from what I'm seeing they're all split right down the middle as to what happened or who got the better of whom in that one, with even those calling it for Lewis having it as a very close fight as seen by comments such as his "margin on points at the end was very slight" (Washington Post, Sept 24th, 1918)...

Ditto for those who had Leonard ahead, as they also seen it as a very close fight as evidence by their "lightweight champion had the shade better of Ted Kid Lewis" (Bridgeport Telegram, Sept 24th, 1918) comments.

The New York Times obviously saw it as a very close fight, as well, and in fact they saw it as a dead even fight, as evidence by their comments in their paper on that same date which read, "Leonard and Lewis box spirited draw", "pummel each other without advantage", and "honors were about even".

i.e. I've yet to read anything to indicate that it wasn't a very close fight, and I certainly don't see any indication that the draw verdict was a "complete gift" for Leonard (no outcry over it), so I'd be kinda curious as to why you'd say that.

[brownpimp88]

What's your sources on that opinion, Pimp?

I'm just wondering because I've read a few sources on the fight, and from what I'm seeing they're all split right down the middle as to what happened or who got the better of whom in that one, with even those calling it for Lewis having it as a very close fight as seen by comments such as his "margin on points at the end was very slight" (Washington Post, Sept 24th, 1918)...

Ditto for those who had Leonard ahead, as they also seen it as a very close fight as evidence by their "lightweight champion had the shade better of Ted Kid Lewis" (Bridgeport Telegram, Sept 24th, 1918) comments.

The New York Times obviously saw it as a very close fight, as well, and in fact they saw it as a dead even fight, as evidence by their comments in their paper on that same date which read, "Leonard and Lewis box spirited draw", "pummel each other without advantage", and "honors were about even".

i.e. I've yet to read anything to indicate that it wasn't a very close fight, and I certainly don't see any indication that the draw verdict was a "complete gift" for Leonard (no outcry over it), so I'd be kinda curious as to why you'd say that.

boxrec says ted kid lewis should have won, i emailed a person from east side boxing and he read more about it and says the majority belive ted kid lewis won.

Listen pal, buddy i study pernell whitaker. I like the guy just as much as max kellerman does. I know which style of fighting beats pernell and it sure as hell isn't benny's. Pernell would have boxed his ears off and outclassed him from the beginning to the end.

When pernell whitaker was fighting, he was getting the same hate that floyd gets right now. Dont hate on the guys that are technically superior, they have every right to be cocky.

[Yogi]

boxrec says ted kid lewis should have won, i emailed a person from east side boxing and he read more about it and says the majority belive ted kid lewis won.

BoxRec does not say Lewis should have won as they've listed five sources in total underneath, with two favouring Lewis (Washington Post & Calgary Herald), two favouring Leonard (Bridgeport Telegram & Middleton Times Press), and one agreeing with the draw verdict (NY Times)...I've read four of those (listed three, but the Middleton paper) and each one indicates the closeness of the fight (with such wording as "very slight", "shade", "honors even", "decision close"...that's the Middleton quote in Leonard's favour) and no where does it state either had any real clear advantage over the other...

But if you say the "majority" thought Lewis won then how about names of some different sources other than the five named (which are split 2-2-1), and how about a quote from them with some indication that it wasn't a very close fight?

[brownpimp88]

BoxRec does not say Lewis should have won as they've listed five sources in total underneath, with two favouring Lewis (Washington Post & Calgary Herald), two favouring Leonard (Bridgeport Telegram & Middleton Times Press), and one agreeing with the draw verdict (NY Times)...I've read four of those (listed three, but the Middleton paper) and each one indicates the closeness of the fight (with such wording as "very slight", "shade", "honors even", "decision close"...that's the Middleton quote in Leonard's favour) and no where does it state either had any real clear advantage over the other...

But if you say the "majority" thought Lewis won then how about names of some different sources other than the five named (which are split 2-2-1), and how about a quote from them with some indication that it wasn't a very close fight?

You ignored the other part of my post. thanx for hooking me up with benny leonard footage, now i know pernell would beat him. Thank you yogi!

[Yogi]

You ignored the other part of my post.

Yeah, I did, and I'm sure that you can see that "the other part of (your) post" had nothing to do with the question(s) I asked you, of which you still haven't answered, by the way.

[Kid Achilles]

LOL at Brownpimp, who is notoriously selectively in the points he chooses to address in the posts of others, chastising someone for doing the same.

Comedic gold.

[butterfly1964]

I would say Armstrong or Joe Gans.

[brownpimp88]

LOL at Brownpimp, who is notoriously selectively in the points he chooses to address in the posts of others, chastising someone for doing the same.

Comedic gold.

Aaron Pryor is the type of guy that would give pernell whitaker big problems. Benny Leonard is not, you know it and i know it. Dont try and avoid the truth, *****!

[wdl1]

I say Duran. I mean ,once in his prime,he was unbeatable. He destroyed Dejesus in their rematch and rubber match. I just don`t know who could avoid his tenacity for 15 rounds... And don`t forget that Manos de Pedrias(spelling?) could go a hard 15 rds. Funny thing about Duran,he developed into a pretty slick boxer,too. Now I`m not talking abut the second coming of Willie Pep. But he could make you miss then make you pay. As a lightweight, he was nasty...