Why did Marciano Not Fight The Best of His Era.

[Ray Corso]

Early KOs aren't the best endorsement of power, more like weak nerves and "opponents" being over matched. Any promoter and matchmaker in the world finds the weakest "boxers" they can find to fight their prospect then move up to the professional losers then the guys who could box "a little" but can't break an egg!! So thoughs first 12 to 20 bouts are throw a ways. In Tysons case he had better opponents in the "open" amatuer class boxing Henry Tillman as apposed to the Peter Neeleys of the world!
As for Rocky fighting Floyd or Sonny as I stated eralier he was over 12 years older than them. Floyd was just beginning his career as a "middleweight" when Rocky was whippin all the bums he fought just like Louis did years earlier!! What you people don't under stand is the "business" of boxing! Their are people you choose to deal with and others you don't this effects match ups at times but how you conduct your business is "who you are"! You may also have commitments that need to be taken care of that were acumulated on your way up and its time to repay the asociates. The Boxing Business is much tuffer than the fights and much of it is not common knowledge.
Just look at todays landscape you have 100 million dollars on one bout and the two camps can't get together? Marciano would enter the ring nekkid with a knife and fight a lion for 100million! Tell him the winner gets a free meal? He'll Win!!! Ray

[hhascup]

Early KOs aren't the best endorsement of power, more like weak nerves and "opponents" being over matched. Any promoter and matchmaker in the world finds the weakest "boxers" they can find to fight their prospect then move up to the professional losers then the guys who could box "a little" but can't break an egg!! So thoughs first 12 to 20 bouts are throw a ways. In Tysons case he had better opponents in the "open" amatuer class boxing Henry Tillman as apposed to the Peter Neeleys of the world!
As for Rocky fighting Floyd or Sonny as I stated eralier he was over 12 years older than them. Floyd was just beginning his career as a "middleweight" when Rocky was whippin all the bums he fought just like Louis did years earlier!! What you people don't under stand is the "business" of boxing! Their are people you choose to deal with and others you don't this effects match ups at times but how you conduct your business is "who you are"! You may also have commitments that need to be taken care of that were acumulated on your way up and its time to repay the asociates. The Boxing Business is much tuffer than the fights and much of it is not common knowledge.
Just look at todays landscape you have 100 million dollars on one bout and the two camps can't get together? Marciano would enter the ring nekkid with a knife and fight a lion for 100million! Tell him the winner gets a free meal? He'll Win!!! Ray

The only named fighter Rocky knocked out in the 1st round was Jersey Joe Walcott and Walcott was 39 at the time. Tyson knocked out Marvis Frazier, Michael Spinks, Carl Williams, Henry Tillman, Alex Stewart, Bruce Seldon, Lou Savarese and Clifford Etienne all in the 1st round.

(Note I was with Michael Spinks tonight at the COMBATT dinner in Newark, N.J.)

As far as Patterson goes, he was 1st rated in the top 10 in the World in August 1953, and that was in the Light Heavyweight Division, he was never rated as a Middleweight. When Rocky retired in 1956, Patterson was the #1 Light Heavyweight contender in the World.

[JAB5239]

The only named fighter Rocky knocked out in the 1st round was Jersey Joe Walcott and Walcott was 39 at the time. Tyson knocked out Marvis Frazier, Michael Spinks, Carl Williams, Henry Tillman, Alex Stewart, Bruce Seldon, Lou Savarese and Clifford Etienne all in the 1st round.

(Note I was with Michael Spinks tonight at the COMBATT dinner in Newark, N.J.)

As far as Patterson goes, he was 1st rated in the top 10 in the World in August 1953, and that was in the Light Heavyweight Division, he was never rated as a Middleweight. When Rocky retired in 1956, Patterson was the #1 Light Heavyweight contender in the World.

Henry, just curious if you and Ray know each other. I figure you must have crossed paths being from the tri state area and being involved with the same circles and knowing the same people.

[Ray Corso]

Never said Floyd was a "ranked" middleweight I said he was at middleweight, fighting at 160+ a few bouts at 166 + 168 this was common then.
As far as Jersey Joe goes I'll consider him at 39yrs every bit as good and better as the fellows Tyson fought and stopped none of them had the Will to win, they were opponents. Tyson was told to go out and get rid of those guys because thats what they were, opponents. Other than Spinks who had talent but was over matched before he got near the ring the others were their to lose, simple as that. Rocky was a cautious fighter in the first round unless he was pressured then it was on! Patterson was a game young man who trained very hard but the facts are facts he never attained heavyweight power and all though he put punches together well he didn't have power!

jab5239: I'm not familar with Henry's name but there is a chance we've met if he was involved in boxing in the 60's up till about 1985! In Jersey I was on alot of the earliest espn Totowa Ice Palace shows taking care of "opponents" who came in without corner help. Eddie Alliano taught me corner work regarding cuts and abraisions. Later on I worked bouts at the Tropicana for Donny Elbaum but my home court was the Hartford Civic Center in Hartford Conn. Back then we were running closed circuit events with live boxing shows as the undercard to the feeds! One of the fellows I worked with to promote the USA/ABF kids was Johnny Davenport, Johnny had a gym in Jersey (can't remember where) and when he ran shows I brought my kids down to box his and he came up to mine in Hamden Conn. John was a very good trainer who cared for his kids and worked hard for them. I was more interested in the amatuers then because to me if you weren't able to compete within the top twenty in a pro division why turn pro? I handled pro fighters but I was NOT their trainer I was hired to get them in shape and work their corners, I did not develop them nor did I match them. I did however train and managed and had total control over my team. Most of whom I trained since they were 11 yrs old up till 18 years old.
I don't like boxers being abused in any way and the boxing business can be a very immoral one. I handled alot of the "meat wagon" guys and they were some of the nicest men I ever met and a few of them actually could have done well within the sport but they had to much bagage for promoters, matchmakers and managers to deal with. Theres alot of throw aways in this business! Ray.

[StarshipTrooper]

Good thing Patterson didn't have any power he might have killed Ingo :rolleyes9:

Poet

[hhascup]

Never said Floyd was a "ranked" middleweight I said he was at middleweight, fighting at 160+ a few bouts at 166 + 168 this was common then.
As far as Jersey Joe goes I'll consider him at 39yrs every bit as good and better as the fellows Tyson fought and stopped none of them had the Will to win, they were opponents. Tyson was told to go out and get rid of those guys because thats what they were, opponents. Other than Spinks who had talent but was over matched before he got near the ring the others were their to lose, simple as that. Rocky was a cautious fighter in the first round unless he was pressured then it was on! Patterson was a game young man who trained very hard but the facts are facts he never attained heavyweight power and all though he put punches together well he didn't have power!

jab5239: I'm not familar with Henry's name but there is a chance we've met if he was involved in boxing in the 60's up till about 1985! In Jersey I was on alot of the earliest espn Totowa Ice Palace shows taking care of "opponents" who came in without corner help. Eddie Alliano taught me corner work regarding cuts and abraisions. Later on I worked bouts at the Tropicana for Donny Elbaum but my home court was the Hartford Civic Center in Hartford Conn. Back then we were running closed circuit events with live boxing shows as the undercard to the feeds! One of the fellows I worked with to promote the USA/ABF kids was Johnny Davenport, Johnny had a gym in Jersey (can't remember where) and when he ran shows I brought my kids down to box his and he came up to mine in Hamden Conn. John was a very good trainer who cared for his kids and worked hard for them. I was more interested in the amatuers then because to me if you weren't able to compete within the top twenty in a pro division why turn pro? I handled pro fighters but I was NOT their trainer I was hired to get them in shape and work their corners, I did not develop them nor did I match them. I did however train and managed and had total control over my team. Most of whom I trained since they were 11 yrs old up till 18 years old.
I don't like boxers being abused in any way and the boxing business can be a very immoral one. I handled alot of the "meat wagon" guys and they were some of the nicest men I ever met and a few of them actually could have done well within the sport but they had to much bagage for promoters, matchmakers and managers to deal with. Theres alot of throw aways in this business! Ray.

The lightest Patterson ever fought was at 163½, and when Rocky fought Archie Moore, Patterson was the top Light Heavyweight Contender in the World and was fighting Heavyweights, But I know what your talking about.

I really feel that Jersey Joe was just looking for a final pay day when he fought Rocky the 2nd time. He once told me that he lost track of the count.

I use to go to all the fights at Ice World, so I most likely met you along the way. Years later I became a Ring Announcer for Lou Duva and I also was the MC for many of his events.

John Davenport passed away several years ago and I gave a short Eulogy and rung the bell in honor of his life "9" times at the funeral.

Here's a few recent articles:

http://www.***********.com/18563-henry-hascup.html

The *********** is "sad do boxing" but the letters are all together.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Henry_Hascup

http://www.ourlic.com/cgi-bin/galler...mages_id=16822

[Ray Corso]

Your photo is familar and those days were alot of work but also alot of fun. The ride to Atlantic City was always eventfull with characters fighting like Alvin "Killer" Manson vs Jerry "Whimpy" Halstead HA! or a serious Saad (Matt) Muhammed against anyone. Good money and good food with work and laughs.
I'm very sorry to hear about my old friend Johnny, we worked together very well which was huge benefits for our kids. We were always matched against each other and they were always straight up bouts because of our honesty and respect for one another. I remember little Harold Knight as a J.O. boxer and Hard Rock (J. Green)was a favorite of mine. I was the J.O. Region One coach for a few years with Espada from NYC he had Juan LaPorta back then and he was a fun character too. We both went to Colo. Springs Olympic Center in its first year with Mr. Napi as the head coach who used to handle me years before this. I think Harold was the feather, my son Ray was the Lt.Ww and Mke was the Hvywt. All the other kids got beat their first bouts dying in the altitude but those three went on to do really well.
Nice to met you Henry is young Duva still in the business. I think I helped Sr. with the Ramos kid he had in the late 70s but that kid had talent but didn't want to do the work. Oh well, old story! pleasure! Ray Corso.

[hhascup]

Your photo is familar and those days were alot of work but also alot of fun. The ride to Atlantic City was always eventfull with characters fighting like Alvin "Killer" Manson vs Jerry "Whimpy" Halstead HA! or a serious Saad (Matt) Muhammed against anyone. Good money and good food with work and laughs.
I'm very sorry to hear about my old friend Johnny, we worked together very well which was huge benefits for our kids. We were always matched against each other and they were always straight up bouts because of our honesty and respect for one another. I remember little Harold Knight as a J.O. boxer and Hard Rock (J. Green)was a favorite of mine. I was the J.O. Region One coach for a few years with Espada from NYC he had Juan LaPorta back then and he was a fun character too. We both went to Colo. Springs Olympic Center in its first year with Mr. Napi as the head coach who used to handle me years before this. I think Harold was the feather, my son Ray was the Lt.Ww and Mke was the Hvywt. All the other kids got beat their first bouts dying in the altitude but those three went on to do really well.
Nice to met you Henry is young Duva still in the business. I think I helped Sr. with the Ramos kid he had in the late 70s but that kid had talent but didn't want to do the work. Oh well, old story! pleasure! Ray Corso.

I still see Harold Knight once in a while at the Amateur fights. Dino's not doing too much and Lou will be 90 very shortly, in fact I was invited to his 90th birthday party. Alex Ramos is still around as he is the head of the Retired Boxers Foundation and he contacts me many times.

Where are you located now, if your around New York, why don't you stop in at one of the Ring 8 meetings. They have the meeting every 3rd Tuesday except in July and December. It's at the Waterfront Crab House 2-03 Borden Ave. Long Island City.

There also having a reunion of the stars that fought in Atlantic City on Saturday, June 2nd at The Resorts.

[Ray Corso]

My gym was in Hamden Conn for years and its now run by one of my amatuers boxers who boxed on my team in the 70s. Its in New Haven Conn now and maintains the same name Ring One Boxing! I retired in 1988 and moved to West Palm Beach then and now I live in North Port (south Sarasota) west coast Florida. The original Youth Boxing Program is still in Hamden and run by my old friend Gaspar Ortega who I'm sure you've heard of. Gaspar was a tuff hombre and was a big part of the 50s/60s party in the Welter Class! Those guys fought each other weekly it seemed. Brian Clarke runs the Ring One gym and was the young man who trained Chad Dawson early in Chads development. Hes a very dedicated young man and does a good job with his kids.
I had a few shouting matches with Lou in the ring hahahaha I enjoyed him he and old Johnny Duke from Hartford Ct. were the old school hard nose guys then. Now I am, HA!!! If I were up there still I'd pop in. In fact theres a young man on this forum in New York I'd love to arrainge to meet, he wouldn't like it but I would!! Talk soon Henry. Ray.

[hhascup]

My gym was in Hamden Conn for years and its now run by one of my amatuers boxers who boxed on my team in the 70s. Its in New Haven Conn now and maintains the same name Ring One Boxing! I retired in 1988 and moved to West Palm Beach then and now I live in North Port (south Sarasota) west coast Florida. The original Youth Boxing Program is still in Hamden and run by my old friend Gaspar Ortega who I'm sure you've heard of. Gaspar was a tuff hombre and was a big part of the 50s/60s party in the Welter Class! Those guys fought each other weekly it seemed. Brian Clarke runs the Ring One gym and was the young man who trained Chad Dawson early in Chads development. Hes a very dedicated young man and does a good job with his kids.
I had a few shouting matches with Lou in the ring hahahaha I enjoyed him he and old Johnny Duke from Hartford Ct. were the old school hard nose guys then. Now I am, HA!!! If I were up there still I'd pop in. In fact theres a young man on this forum in New York I'd love to arrainge to meet, he wouldn't like it but I would!! Talk soon Henry. Ray.

I just talked to Gaspar Ortega last night at the COMBATT Dinner in Newark.

I'm going to Florida this coming Monday and next weekend I'll be staying in Sarasota. My step-son has a place their.