Luis Ortiz: Anthony Joshua es una gallina (chicken)

[Laligalaliga]

Bubba it's very clear you do not read my posts in full. You must get upset or something and either can't finish it or can't handle reading more fully than skimming.

Either way, I don't have anything to add because I don't feel like you addressed anything I said.

I'll give you an example:

I told you that Povetkin failing a drug test put pressure on Martin-Joshua.

You tell me Povetkin was the mandatory.

Yes...yes he was. he also failed a drug test which had the world speculating about the prospect of Wilder vs Martin. Povetkin being mando in no way disproves this. I only used the existence of a rumor as proof....shouldn't be hard to disprove really, but Povetkin being mando is definitely a non-point.

We can go through the entirety of our posts highlighting these discrepancies, but if you couldn't handle reading the original in its entirety you're definitely not going to read any extension to it so what's the point?

All you always do here is to site reasons why wilder has a poor resume.
Nothing else. Full of excuses. Damn!!!

[Squ□redCircle34]

When Ortiz start putting 5/10k people on a seat to watch him, then I will take him serious.

Has Parker packed a full house in New Zealand or even somewhere in the UK without fighting a UK fighter?

How bout Povetkin?

You AJ man fans keep bringing other men’s paychecks and seatings but forget the sport is about who wants to challenge themselves the most!

Ortiz already challenged Wilder and came up short although he was close to being champion!

I think he’s well within his rights to challenge AJ since he’s considered by most boxing experts a top 5 or top 10 heavyweight!

AJ is the one you need to focus diatribes on, the man paid his way to a title not just once but twice but all of a sudden is refusing to pay for the WBC title cuz it happens to be in Wilder’s possession!

Isn’t that funny? The man who always says there’s enough money for everyone but bawks at Wilder wanting a fair percentage or even a percentage!

What about Dillian Whyte? He ducked Ortiz twice,once when the WBC made him and Ortiz the mandatory eliminator challengers with the winner to have a shot at Wilder and then when Whyte called out Ortiz!

Dillian Whyte called Ortiz out and told him to get off the PPV undercard of Wilder vs Fury and fight him on a main event in the UK!

Ortiz and his management agreed and were ready for contracts but then Whyte disappeared!

He got put on a gag order by his puppet master Edwards Hearns who as usual talked bullshît bout all the fans don’t want to see Whyte vs Ortiz but they all want to see Whyte vs Chisora rematch!

Whyte did himself no favors since he called Ortiz ancient and said he would retire him and it’s a easy nights job!

Keep supporting two faced cowards and you’ll soon find you’ll become just like them!

[Marchegiano]

The guy that was presumed to be scared to be champ now has all the belts except the green belt, I can understand how scared he was.

Meanwhile the other that isn't scared and is a champ before the scared guy stepped up is still in the same position. I can also see how brave he is.

The so called champ calling out the scared guy, I understand how long he lasted in the ring for his first defence for a champ that is so confident of decimating the Olympic gold medalist.

I can see how all the drama played out. This same scary guy is challenging himself to be undisputed and has sent 3 different contracts to this other brave champ.

Oh yeah!! I can see how scared he is.

There isn't even an attempt to discredit anything I pointed out....you're just crying about my conclusion. Without even bothering to offer any evidence that discredits it.

Joshua having resume and the belts is included, it is addressed. Why would I readdress it for an emotional pizzle such as yourself?

Reread the posts until you can think up a counterpoint. Otherwise shut the **** up while grown men is speaking.

[champion4ever]

Just come out plane and say you don't want the fight to happen and we will understand your position. No where in hell will wilder get a 50/50, at least a person with a half decent brain already knows this.

AJ don't need bird legs to fill out stadium or ppv 's but after fury who sees wilder on ppv again? You are always too emotional, are you a girl?

3 contracts, no signature but it's the first to cry to the media been ducked to fight a rehab patient.
Pathetic.

I'm sorry pal, but you are wrong. Deontay Wilder just so happens to be the last champion standing at heavyweight. He is the WBC's heavyweight champion; So unless Joshua wants to become the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, then he must fight "The Bronze Bomber".

In addition, Eddie and Anthony blew it by revoking their original offer of a $15mil flat fee, with no rematch clause, guarantee and by Wilder fighting on Joshua's home soil. That only goes to show just how badly Wilder wanted to fight Anthony Joshua.

However at the last minute, Joshua's team panicked because their bluff was called and contacted the WBA about a mandatory defense of Alexander Povetkin for Anthony Joshua's title. So AJ never wanted the fight because he keeps hiding behind his mandatory defenses.

He's so afraid of getting his asswhooped and losing his 0 that he is constantly avoiding Deontay Wilder. So I am sorry; It's either all or nothing now. Joshua must either deal em up straight or don't deal em at all.

So now it's time to draft a new deal that would be favorable to both parties involved. If they really want and is sincere about the fight. Then it's time for Matchroom boxing to either shit or get off the toilet by quit wasting Wilder's time.

P.S. find yourself a woman and get laid! Watching another man's legs is a very unhealthy thing to do, unless you are not a full man with uncontrollable homosexual tendencies

[Marchegiano]

All you always do here is to site reasons why wilder has a poor resume.
Nothing else. Full of excuses. Damn!!!

Nah, all I do here is answer questions and correct mistakes.


When the question and answer steps on no modern fighter's toes miraculously no poster takes any issue and I am simply a helpful fan. When setting records straight puts your opinions in a negative light you all sure do come out of the woodwork to cry about it while offering nothing but emotion and flippancy as a response.....like a woman.

Youse are like politicians that refuse to address issues.


I says AJ showed fear prior to Martin.

Fella says no way, it was finances.

I shows him some evidence of fear.

He doesn't get a chance to respond before you chime in with your dumbass " But AJ da champ doe" emotional outburst.

[Jax teller]

Mister Teller you have a talent for straight shooting and putting others in a position that motivates them to drop the bull****. I am impressed.

That said, I do not buck against boxing's xenophobic nature. It's there by design not chance and has always been. I see it as a matter of tradition. So, yeah, sometimes I am a bit exaggerated with my antagonism, but, that does not discount the point I raised.

It's ok that you'd rather not look up what went on and simply believe Eddie as he changes narrative. That's what Eddie is banking on. The general laziness of fans, no offense.

I'll give you some snippets:


Charles Martin has offered Anthony Joshua a shot at the IBF title. Martin even tweeted this week that Joshua was afraid to fight him, he confirmed this to us and that the title shot is currently on the table and it is up to Joshua’s team on whether the fight happens or not:

“We put it out there, if his team doesn’t want to take the fight then that’s that. I want to face the best guys, everyone is saying that he’s the best. He’s a gold medalist and they are saying he’s not ready. I’m world champion but he’s a gold medalist – how can you not be ready? If you got all kinds of hype behind you then I want to fight you. I’m not here to fight bums, everyone is saying this kid is the next big thing, well, I want to fight him. I’m hearing his name in everybody’s mouth, he has some stature behind him. Why wouldn’t I want to fight him as my first defence? I’m giving him a title shot so let’s get on with it.”

Boxing can be heated at the best of times and fighter’s can be very personal in the build-up to a fight, but when it comes to Charles Martin and Anthony Joshua, Martin has no bad blood. He says it’s just boxing:

”I’ve never met the kid, I’ve no bad blood towards him, it’s the sport of boxing. Right now I only see it being Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder, Tyson Fury and two of them have mandatory fights so I want to fight Joshua. They wanted to do an eliminator with Carlos Takam but why doesn’t he just fight me? I’m giving him a title shot right now. I’m not being the bad guy, I’m giving him a title shot.”


"We've reached out to Joshua's people," promoter Leon Margules has been quoted as saying by ******.com. "I think there's interest on their side but I just don't know if they think they're ready yet.

"They know they have a kid they're holding back. I think it's a fight that can be made if they think they're ready.

"We'd go to England if there is a fight. The kid is a superstar over there. Everyone is saying he's the second coming, so let's find out."

It was Martin who called out Joshua and it was Team Martin who kept pressure on that fight happening.

Team Joshua had to be talked into fighting Charles Martin....also you should be suspicious of Takam's willingness to be Hearn's bargaining chip and go to alternative.


The fact does remain that Joshua has taken more risks and does have a better resume, but that can't be used as an excuse to plaster over any reasoning presented. Joshua has a history of avoiding is just as much a fact as Joshua has a better resume. Both are true.

So when talking willingness to fight one another Joshua hasn't shown much. He's been hesitant and apprehensive while others come to him. Wilder by contrast has literally shouted for years while others go to Josh.

Mysteriously it isn't until after Wilder starts being put in the mix that Team Joshua finds a reason to fight Martin. stuff like this:

Doubtful this will kill any rumors. But remember, this is @BronzeBomber's promoter. Keep on thinking, guys. https://t.co/2Z2G574jWF

— Deontay Wilder News (@BrnzBomberNews) February 6, 2016

Joshua didn't want to fight Martin because Joshua was scared of being champion and being pressured to fight the other champions. It's only after they realize that if they fight Takam they open up time for Haymon to set up Wilder-Martin. AJ-Takam would have been for an IBF elim. Had Wilder taken Martin's belt while Joshua took Carlos's mandatory position then Joshua would be forced to fight Wilder where as, as a champion, he does not have to make any unification in any amount of time.





The rest of your post, I am not real sure what any of it has to do with anything. Ortiz doesn't need a resume for Joshua to be scared of Wilder. His being a fighter and a champion do not in anyway reflect a lack of fear. It's emotion, it does not require sense. Mike Tyson spoke a lot about being scared of the other guy.

Also, that's one hell of a marination. Basically Joshua's entire pro career. He started fighting Wilder leftovers in 2015. This isn't marination it's avoiding. Joshua fought Gavern for the same reason Povetkin fought Wlad's leftovers. That is how you gain position while avoiding trouble.

Joshua's belts do not make him number one in every facet of the sport. When it comes to fear, hesitation, apprehensiveness, and a general healthy respect for the opponent Joshua has shown plenty. Wilder wins this one. Wilder has shown no fear.

Yeah I was going to make a point with the Ortiz but post my train of thought.

With all respect involving DW in to the Martin equation looks a bit like joining the dots that aren't there. I think this article covers AJ's teams mind set quite nicely.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...london-april-9

Looked like Jennings was more of an option than Takam.

Also the Martin quotes do resemble a man calling out a relatively green HW for a pay day, definitely worked though as he got a huge 5 mil guarantee plus.

Wilders team have previously admitted to not being ready for the likes of Wlad so I wouldn't say they're team 'no fear'. And they've played to Hearns beat whenever he's provided and excuse to not make the fight i.e. not pointing out contract issues till too late and just saying the fights not happening when Hearn provides a low ball opening offer, I'd like to see a bit of back and forth negotiating resmbling how Parker fight was made. Also that cancelling meeting BS was very unconstructive to say the least.

With the fights after, my opinion is that AJ has entered the current that leads to Wilder since the Martin fight and has collected the belts to strengthen financial bargaining position and make the biggest fight bigger (for all the belts) much like Wilder with the Fury fight. These guys both have teams that have a business strategy and plan for them and to completely disregard that and say it's fear is off.

[Marchegiano]

Yeah I was going to make a point with the Ortiz but post my train of thought.

With all respect involving DW in to the Martin equation looks a bit like joining the dots that aren't there. I think this article covers AJ's teams mind set quite nicely.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/i...london-april-9

Looked like Jennings was more of an option than Takam.

Also the Martin quotes do resemble a man calling out a relatively green HW for a pay day, definitely worked though as he got a huge 5 mil guarantee plus.

Wilders team have previously admitted to not being ready for the likes of Wlad so I wouldn't say they're team 'no fear'. And they've played to Hearns beat whenever he's provided and excuse to not make the fight i.e. not pointing out contract issues till too late and just saying the fights not happening when Hearn provides a low ball opening offer, I'd like to see a bit of back and forth negotiating resmbling how Parker fight was made. Also that cancelling meeting BS was very unconstructive to say the least.

With the fights after, my opinion is that AJ has entered the current that leads to Wilder since the Martin fight and has collected the belts to strengthen financial bargaining position and make the biggest fight bigger (for all the belts) much like Wilder with the Fury fight. These guys both have teams that have a business strategy and plan for them and to completely disregard that and say it's fear is off.

Well, I can provide more evidence if you like but you understand that rumor didn't come from nowhere and more importantly I'm not just making **** up. So if you are satisfied with evidence/conclusion then so am I.

As far as Jennings is concerned I think it's better if I direct you to this article:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ator-discussed

Sure, I'd agree with Martin wanting paid but how are those things different? All you're doing is rationalizing the fear and explaining Joshua had plenty to lose. Yes, he did, and yes he had plenty of rational reasons to delay that fight, but it is a delay nonetheless and if Josh had no fear there is no reason to delay. Afraid of making a bad deal is still afraid.

Wilder has never admitted to not being ready for Wlad. Wilder called Wlad out first, Wlad responded with Wilder needs to build his resume before they fight, then Finkle agreed with Wlad. Finkle who at the time had financial interest in both men winning. You can just as easily attribute the entirety of that match not happening to Wlad's Team as you can Wilder's but y'all never present it that way and if I said it in as matter of fact words as "Wlad ducked Deontay" I'm sure to get a response from someone crying about it. The truth is the man in the middle had nothing to gain.


The Parker negotiations did not begin with an all time low-ball. Do you realize they offered Wilder less cut than what Jack Johnson earned when he broke the colorline. Yeah, it's true. The kids talk about racism in boxing and I don't much have anything to say on it because I don't hardly know the heart of a man. Eddie doesn't seem like a racist, but, when you do **** like that I do understand why he draws the ire of the black US public. That is their history. Being lowballed. Being used because they have less numbers and so inferior infrastructure to counter the mainstream. That touched a serious nerve in every southern born minority who heard of it because that is the history after slavery in a nutshell. Went from corporal control to financial.

That friend is not a negotiation move it is Mendoza School. Rile the audience in the press is step one and he did just that.

From there we go into Jem Ward tactics of moving the goal post.

Then Wilder's team stops playing.

This began as a text book and cliche promotion and ended as a textbook cliche promotion. Read Daniel The Jew Mendoza's books and tell me there's even a remote chance that's a stretch.

Both fighters gained from it and the only people left out are fans. No one should agree with any side. Wilder's excuse of having tried you gotta believe him is not good enough for me. Joshua's should be likewise to you.

[Squ□redCircle34]

There isn't even an attempt to discredit anything I pointed out....you're just crying about my conclusion. Without even bothering to offer any evidence that discredits it.

Joshua having resume and the belts is included, it is addressed. Why would I readdress it for an emotional pizzle such as yourself?

Reread the posts until you can think up a counterpoint. Otherwise shut the **** up while grown men is speaking.

Pure unadulterated ether, the burn is real!

[Jax teller]

Well, I can provide more evidence if you like but you understand that rumor didn't come from nowhere and more importantly I'm not just making **** up. So if you are satisfied with evidence/conclusion then so am I.

As far as Jennings is concerned I think it's better if I direct you to this article:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ator-discussed

Sure, I'd agree with Martin wanting paid but how are those things different? All you're doing is rationalizing the fear and explaining Joshua had plenty to lose. Yes, he did, and yes he had plenty of rational reasons to delay that fight, but it is a delay nonetheless and if Josh had no fear there is no reason to delay. Afraid of making a bad deal is still afraid.

Wilder has never admitted to not being ready for Wlad. Wilder called Wlad out first, Wlad responded with Wilder needs to build his resume before they fight, then Finkle agreed with Wlad. Finkle who at the time had financial interest in both men winning. You can just as easily attribute the entirety of that match not happening to Wlad's Team as you can Wilder's but y'all never present it that way and if I said it in as matter of fact words as "Wlad ducked Deontay" I'm sure to get a response from someone crying about it. The truth is the man in the middle had nothing to gain.


The Parker negotiations did not begin with an all time low-ball. Do you realize they offered Wilder less cut than what Jack Johnson earned when he broke the colorline. Yeah, it's true. The kids talk about racism in boxing and I don't much have anything to say on it because I don't hardly know the heart of a man. Eddie doesn't seem like a racist, but, when you do **** like that I do understand why he draws the ire of the black US public. That is their history. Being lowballed. Being used because they have less numbers and so inferior infrastructure to counter the mainstream. That touched a serious nerve in every southern born minority who heard of it because that is the history after slavery in a nutshell. Went from corporal control to financial.

That friend is not a negotiation move it is Mendoza School. Rile the audience in the press is step one and he did just that.

From there we go into Jem Ward tactics of moving the goal post.

Then Wilder's team stops playing.

This began as a text book and cliche promotion and ended as a textbook cliche promotion. Read Daniel The Jew Mendoza's books and tell me there's even a remote chance that's a stretch.

Both fighters gained from it and the only people left out are fans. No one should agree with any side. Wilder's excuse of having tried you gotta believe him is not good enough for me. Joshua's should be likewise to you.

I'm surprised you're saying Wilders excuse of having tried is not good enough, literally first the first Wilder fan I've heard saying that, well done mate.

I definitely appreciate a flat fee was never gonna get it done and Hearn knew this but it is a starting block for Wilder to say "no I want a percentage", ultimately if Hearn wanted the fight he would start with a percentage but ultimately if Wilder wanted it he would have said this before the talks are over as well, both to blame IMO . Wilder and some of his fans expect a lot especially when Holyfield only gave Lewis 33% purse split for their first fight for undisputed (Lewis had WBC and a legit lineal much like Wilder is to have WBC and Furys debatable Lineal title).

Hearn is getting best for his own fighters, I don't see what race has got to do with, again I say this with all respect but I think the UK is very different to the US regarding so called "race wars" and racism. Here obviously you do have racists but they a generally a few individuals far between and not groups as it is illegal and a very hot topic in nearly all social circles, you get shunnned for it. Even in majority white areas it's just not acceptable at all with even primary schools (5-11 year olds) having things such racist books to record them and education specifically aiming to wipe out the behavior and I'd say it's worked.

I was pretty pissed Wilder said he's not big in the UK because he's dark skinned and out spoken especially after the reception he got from the people that did know him when he came here. I was coming round a bit him as well, he'd just said how he was overcoming cultural barriers and believed he was educating other people with what he'd learnt about the meaning of the word dosser, he didn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed because of what he was saying but you could tell he believed he was making the world a better place buy spreading his knowledge of dosser which was funny/endearing. Historically his point about the UK regarding fighters has not been the case for other dark skinned fighters, Floyd has even said he rates the UK fans as they are with you win or lose. I would have said Wilder is less popular because firstly it's international competition, also he's relatively unknown and hard to follow due to time zone differences which is a big factor with boxing and that he's been very out spoken/name calling against the UKs Golden boy, AJ, which even if he believed it was just him calling him out there's more diplomatic ways to do it if you want UK fans instead.

Also Wilder has definitely shown fear, he wouldn't turn up to commentate on the AJ Parker fight to build his name in the UK and an AJ-Wilder fight, some say it's because he doesn't want to play Hearns games and might not have been allowed into the ring (he might have been given permission, we'll never know). But this came about after Whyte popped into the equation and somewhat appeared like he didn't want to come face to face with him. Since then Wilder has stated you have fight Ortiz before you get a shot at him and/or that he will make him wait the 2 years. If he didn't care he'd just say "you'll get your turn". Note Hearn has tried to push Wilder through Whyte to fight AJ not AJ himself, largely because he has Whytes career to build as well and makes sense to get all .

Also you say AJ has fought no one of note by his own choices and this takes away from his bravery. But Wilder has not fought anyone of note and it's not because of his choices so this adds to his bravery, this doesn't add up. However even Takam that early in his career is a good step up much better than most of Wilders fights bar Ortiz and maybe Stiverne showing good initiative there and less fear. Also let's not forget he doesn't actually have to take the unifications or even the Martin fight, they said that it was much sooner than they planned and took a risk by running ahead of schedule they could have waited till he was 30-0 before going for titles and delayed the possibility of Wilder and aging him more if that was what they was worried about but they took risks sooner and I think they're gonna have to fight a more prime Wilder because of it, this is not fear.

On another note I really hope Hearns latest interview where he said "stuffs happening" regarding April date means it's on/talks are going somewhere. Potential to be a HW supercard with Povetkin rumoured to be on it Miller to fight loser of Whyte v Chisora, Whyte floating about, Ortiz possible signing back with matchroom or DAZN after Dec 1st. Optimistic I know.

[Marchegiano]

I'm surprised you're saying Wilders excuse of having tried is not good enough, literally first the first Wilder fan I've heard saying that, well done mate.

I definitely appreciate a flat fee was never gonna get it done and Hearn knew this but it is a starting block for Wilder to say "no I want a percentage", ultimately if Hearn wanted the fight he would start with a percentage but ultimately if Wilder wanted it he would have said this before the talks are over as well, both to blame IMO . Wilder and some of his fans expect a lot especially when Holyfield only gave Lewis 33% purse split for their first fight for undisputed (Lewis had WBC and a legit lineal much like Wilder is to have WBC and Furys debatable Lineal title).

Hearn is getting best for his own fighters, I don't see what race has got to do with, again I say this with all respect but I think the UK is very different to the US regarding so called "race wars" and racism. Here obviously you do have racists but they a generally a few individuals far between and not groups as it is illegal and a very hot topic in nearly all social circles, you get shunnned for it. Even in majority white areas it's just not acceptable at all with even primary schools (5-11 year olds) having things such racist books to record them and education specifically aiming to wipe out the behavior and I'd say it's worked.

I was pretty pissed Wilder said he's not big in the UK because he's dark skinned and out spoken especially after the reception he got from the people that did know him when he came here. I was coming round a bit him as well, he'd just said how he was overcoming cultural barriers and believed he was educating other people with what he'd learnt about the meaning of the word dosser, he didn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed because of what he was saying but you could tell he believed he was making the world a better place buy spreading his knowledge of dosser which was funny/endearing. Historically his point about the UK regarding fighters has not been the case for other dark skinned fighters, Floyd has even said he rates the UK fans as they are with you win or lose. I would have said Wilder is less popular because firstly it's international competition, also he's relatively unknown and hard to follow due to time zone differences which is a big factor with boxing and that he's been very out spoken/name calling against the UKs Golden boy, AJ, which even if he believed it was just him calling him out there's more diplomatic ways to do it if you want UK fans instead.

Also Wilder has definitely shown fear, he wouldn't turn up to commentate on the AJ Parker fight to build his name in the UK and an AJ-Wilder fight, some say it's because he doesn't want to play Hearns games and might not have been allowed into the ring (he might have been given permission, we'll never know). But this came about after Whyte popped into the equation and somewhat appeared like he didn't want to come face to face with him. Since then Wilder has stated you have fight Ortiz before you get a shot at him and/or that he will make him wait the 2 years. If he didn't care he'd just say "you'll get your turn". Note Hearn has tried to push Wilder through Whyte to fight AJ not AJ himself, largely because he has Whytes career to build as well and makes sense to get all .

Also you say AJ has fought no one of note by his own choices and this takes away from his bravery. But Wilder has not fought anyone of note and it's not because of his choices so this adds to his bravery, this doesn't add up. However even Takam that early in his career is a good step up much better than most of Wilders fights bar Ortiz and maybe Stiverne showing good initiative there and less fear. Also let's not forget he doesn't actually have to take the unifications or even the Martin fight, they said that it was much sooner than they planned and took a risk by running ahead of schedule they could have waited till he was 30-0 before going for titles and delayed the possibility of Wilder and aging him more if that was what they was worried about but they took risks sooner and I think they're gonna have to fight a more prime Wilder because of it, this is not fear.

On another note I really hope Hearns latest interview where he said "stuffs happening" regarding April date means it's on/talks are going somewhere. Potential to be a HW supercard with Povetkin rumoured to be on it Miller to fight loser of Whyte v Chisora, Whyte floating about, Ortiz possible signing back with matchroom or DAZN after Dec 1st. Optimistic I know.

We do have long conversations. Hell, I'm proud of it I reckon. Ain't many'uh Wilder fan and Joshua fan speaking to one another rather than at....so maybe we lead by example just a bit.



I never meant to imply Joshua isn't a brave man. He most certainly is. I just meant to say Joshua's fans have a tendency to overstate what he did and draw conclusions that are simply untrue. Joshua did not go after Joshua was hunted. It's really the core of my frustration with the kid. We had Wlad for a decade. Wlad who refused all Vols and enjoyed sitting on ass while very bad competition knocked themselves out of contention. Fury who did not have the mental fortitude to be the man everyone wants to beat. Joshua who acts like being the man everyone wants to fight in a division that makes Wlad's era look fat, short, weak, slow, old, and incapable is a giant nuisance to him. I would really enjoy a Joshua who is happy to talk about his opponents. Happy to build them up. Happy to make the division, his division, look its absolute strongest that way when he whoops them it makes him look his absolute strongest. His being hesitant to fill that role and rather give rationalizations to his fans burns my ass. I am fairly sick of lame duck champions and that is what I see him as. Come and get me champion as opposed to go get you. Like the Mayweather lottery flipped on its head. Instead of the big, bad, can fight anyone he likes fella going after the men folks say he can't beat the big bad can fight anyone he likes fella wants to sit on ass and let them come to him. It is frustrating as hell and would be even if Wilder did not exist. Wilder offers hope for a return to the old school champs. Not truth, not definitive, just hope. Joshua, Fury, and Wlad don't....you can't even hope they might maybe clear the division, they have no interest. They want the division cleared for them.

I'll leave you to have the final word on this. I did read the post in full and yes I have plenty to say but I feel like we're approaching perspective rather than just chronology and the sort. For example with the Whyte thing we definitely feel like on our side that's to spite Eddie for disrespecting Wilder by offering him less than what real actual colorline racists offered Johnson. Spite? Fear? Kind of a perspective thing isn't it? And no one can be right about that because all we can do is talk about the facts we both agree happened in a manner that supports our individual perspectives at one another until one or both of us becomes frustrated with the other. I've gained respect so I want to nip it before it begins. So take the final word and enjoy bubba.