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Old 11-20-2015, 06:14 PM #51
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yes, too many belts right now, besides it would leave a lot of fighters out. you know, TR and GBP fighters
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:22 PM #52
Eff Pandas Eff Pandas is offline
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Originally Posted by techliam View Post
Hearn has been working with Haymon, but he won't put his star matchups on PBC, at least not exclusively. His monopoly in the UK with Sky Sports ensures that. It's not in his interest to become part of PBC when he effectively dominates the UK boxing scene, with little to no challenge.
People keep saying this like the UK is the best thing Hearn can do. Hearn could be a big part of the world scene & still dominate the UK scene with his affiliation with PBC. I'm sure he realizes this & I'm sure thats why he's working with PBC now.

Quote:
Which leads nicely onto what you've already said - noone suggested that Haymon can't work with other promoters, but the suggestion of this thread is that he will eventually take them over, making everything else redundent. That's not going to happen.
This thread is about titles. So idk about what you're saying. And idk that anyone is saying Haymon is taking over promotion. If anything he's just thinking outside the box with how boxers work with promoters. Currently PBC has worked with about 20 promoters all told to varying degrees in the last 8 months with DiBella, TGB, Warriors, Mayweather, Leija Battah & GYM being the main promoters + the undefined relationship with Hearn. Promoters aren't going anywhere.

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There's a world of difference between Hearn putting his fighters on PBC every now and again, and actually putting all of his fighters under the banner exclusively.
Well thats the thing to. You don't have to. The promoters dealing with PBC now seemingly have had the added benefit of featuring their own fighters (signed or unsigned with Haymon) on PBC cards. And they can still promote cards outside of the PBC universe.

Haymon isn't a dictator with how he works with guys. And its actually in his benefit to work with more promoters so the critical mass of talent PBC represents by virtue of showing their fights increases. Its a misconception that only one side need benefit from these arrangements, either Haymon or the promoter. These relationships can be mutually beneficial thus PBC showing a Matchroom promoted fight isn't f#cking over one side or the other.

Quote:
Hearn would work with any promoter that fits his interest, not just Haymon. You'll see his fighters on Top Rank cards in the US, Sky at home and also PBC cards in the US, and Sky at home. Same with other major promoters.
As should Hearn & any promoter. And they do & will. DiBella & TGB who are two of the top promoters working with PBC right now have had their own non-PBC TV dates during their time with PBC.

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As for Haymon-Ryabinsky, I dont know. Thered be no need for Haymon to be there if Ryabinsky was interested in trying to shift the sport like that. The money he can burn without consequence is beyond ridiculous.
And yet he hasn't tried to do anything like that. I think his most notable accomplishment in boxing so far is burning $20M+ on the Klitschko vs Povetkin fight which seems underwhelming for a guy with so much money. To me he seems like a guy with a ****load of money & lil hobby going with his interest in boxing more than anything else. With Haymon's strategy & Ryabinsky's money I'm positive they could run boxing & change the landscape for the better.

I kinda hope they join forces somewhere along the way cuz boxing needs a altered landscape & its not happening with 4 corrupt sanctioning bodies, fighters playing the A side game & all the other bs that never seems to ends in the sport cuz there is no centralized power structure in the sport to lay down the law so its just a giant clusterf#ck of powerful promoters, boxers & networks pushing & pulling things to their own best outcome instead of boxing's best outcome.
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:24 PM #53
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Originally Posted by Baltimore View Post
I would be against it. Maybe in a few years in the PBC works and gets to be in a ufc-like position with boxing.

The only way I'd be cool with them making PBC belts this early is if they had legitimate tourneys with their best fighters and the end result is the winner getting the new PBC belt.
That would be the smart way to do it. That would also lead to the best fighting the best. I know a lot of fans hate on the PBC, but listen to what the fighters say about Haymon. He has a variety of different fighters. He has Hispanic fighters, European fighters, and Black fighters. I'm not sure about Asians, but you know he would sign whatever Asian fighters available. When I look at GB and TR, I just don't see that. PBC is about to take over the sport.
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:31 PM #54
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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
If the only thing you consider are ratings then you aren't considering the overall plan in play.

PBC is clearly expanding its influence. They have more shows, they are adding Fox as a network in 2016 & they will be dipping their toe in the UK market soon. If they go belly up it won't be for years & in years who knows what sorta top fighters they'll have or how all the TV time they have have created popular fighters that fans enjoy watching (I still believe Artur Beterbiev could be massive if pushed well + they need to get him speaking English sooner rather than later). This is a long term play yet people continual act like a L or a claimed L means all that much yet.
Doesn't matter dawg. Haymon is making the fights like they are catered to the small hardcore fans that will watch it anyway. These sorts of fights are of not good enough quality to lure casual fans.

And why do people watch UFC? To see the matchups between the best fighters. So imagine the casual whose main frame of reference in boxing is PBC, a new watcher. Well that person would want to see Thurman against perhaps Garcia or Khan. But those are their top welters, and they had the bigger fights on PBC, the absolutely only way a casual even starts to care is seeing the guys in the big fights square off against each other.

Why would a newcomer care to see some top fighter keep getting fed what a casual would consider is some no name? UFC is almost every single fight is the best possible matchup, or its very close. What I'm seeing from PBC. Well that is only appealing to hardcore fans. It is destined to fail, imo.

If Deontay was any good, that could be a bigger deal. And Beterbiev is legit exciting. That could be another good fighter for PBC to have, didn't even know that. I guess there are some fighters that are exciting no matter who they fight. There are very few fighters like this. Beterbiev might be that.

Last edited by dr.french; 11-20-2015 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 11-20-2015, 06:31 PM #55
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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
People keep saying this like the UK is the best thing Hearn can do. Hearn could be a big part of the world scene & still dominate the UK scene with his affiliation with PBC. I'm sure he realizes this & I'm sure thats why he's working with PBC now.

This thread is about titles. So idk about what you're saying. And idk that anyone is saying Haymon is taking over promotion. If anything he's just thinking outside the box with how boxers work with promoters. Currently PBC has worked with about 20 promoters all told to varying degrees in the last 8 months with DiBella, TGB, Warriors, Mayweather, Leija Battah & GYM being the main promoters + the undefined relationship with Hearn. Promoters aren't going anywhere.

Well thats the thing to. You don't have to. The promoters dealing with PBC now seemingly have had the added benefit of featuring their own fighters (signed or unsigned with Haymon) on PBC cards. And they can still promote cards outside of the PBC universe.

Haymon isn't a dictator with how he works with guys. And its actually in his benefit to work with more promoters so the critical mass of talent PBC represents by virtue of showing their fights increases. Its a misconception that only one side need benefit from these arrangements, either Haymon or the promoter. These relationships can be mutually beneficial thus PBC showing a Matchroom promoted fight isn't f#cking over one side or the other.

As should Hearn & any promoter. And they do & will. DiBella & TGB who are two of the top promoters working with PBC right now have had their own non-PBC TV dates during their time with PBC.

And yet he hasn't tried to do anything like that. I think his most notable accomplishment in boxing so far is burning $20M+ on the Klitschko vs Povetkin fight which seems underwhelming for a guy with so much money. To me he seems like a guy with a ****load of money & lil hobby going with his interest in boxing more than anything else. With Haymon's strategy & Ryabinsky's money I'm positive they could run boxing & change the landscape for the better.

I kinda hope they join forces somewhere along the way cuz boxing needs a altered landscape & its not happening with 4 corrupt sanctioning bodies, fighters playing the A side game & all the other bs that never seems to ends in the sport cuz there is no centralized power structure in the sport to lay down the law so its just a giant clusterf#ck of powerful promoters, boxers & networks pushing & pulling things to their own best outcome instead of boxing's best outcome.
In essence, we don't disagree on much. However i'm failing to see how Haymon can leapfrog from a scenario where he works with other promoters as he is, like Top Rank do too, to a situation where his title becomes the only one thats important. I think i'm missing or misunderstanding something? I can't see what Haymon is currently doing, in what you've described, that is attacking the need for other major promoters, and from that, the sanctioning bodies.

Hearn has vested interests in keeping world titles. Promoting a domestic level fight in the UK as a world title fight is easy promotion. Most other promoters do the exact same thing, Haymon included. Could you explain it to me? You're right with Ryabinsky, his intentions seem isolated to Eastern Europe, but he'll always have his own way. Also thanks for the interesting response, I appreciate your posts more than most others.
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Old 11-20-2015, 08:23 PM #56
Eff Pandas Eff Pandas is offline
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Originally Posted by techliam View Post
In essence, we don't disagree on much. However i'm failing to see how Haymon can leapfrog from a scenario where he works with other promoters as he is, like Top Rank do too, to a situation where his title becomes the only one thats important. I think i'm missing or misunderstanding something? I can't see what Haymon is currently doing, in what you've described, that is attacking the need for other major promoters, and from that, the sanctioning bodies.
You don't see how if Haymon has relationships with all the champions, their promoters & most of the rest of the top guys how he can weed out the alphabet groups & create a more meaningful one real world champion landscape? I mean **** man being a straight shooter about this idek that I can break down all that point by point, but you gotta see the power & influence a guy with those relationships can have in the business & with doing something thats never been done.

For example we are 8mos in & Haymon controls half of the top ten guys @ 126 & 4 of the 5 title holders & 7 of the top ten guys @ 154 & 2 of the 3 titles holders & he's the odds on favorite to have a 3rd title holder once Floyd's belt gets filled. He's basically got those divisions locked up now, but when/if he gets all the belts with PBC affiliated fighters he can just have them fight & the winner gets a PBC belt & they can keep the other belts til people don't give enough of a f#ck about them. Granted this is no overnight **** & there are surely gonna be more battles & perhaps wars down the road to that, but honestly boxing needs that if its every going to become a respected sport by sports fans again.

Quote:
Hearn has vested interests in keeping world titles. Promoting a domestic level fight in the UK as a world title fight is easy promotion. Most other promoters do the exact same thing, Haymon included. Could you explain it to me?
I think everyone knows boxing can be bigger than it currently is. In particular those in the business know that. In money & in popularity. Although those two things probably go hand in hand. That said there is more power in one world champion than 4 title holders in any particular division. There is more power in random people on the street knowing whoever is THE welterweight world champion & not just one of the many "world" champions.

Boxing needs a facelift & the people who help perform that facelift are gonna benefit $-wise, so while the game is what it is now & promoters take advantage of that, I believe as the potential for a new reality comes to light for more & more people there will be those who hitch on that wagon to ideally cash in on this new reality. I believe Hearn to possibly be one of those people even if it means maybe Kell Brook ends up being the #5 WW in the world instead of a title holder. But hell there is probably just as much money in being the #5 guy in a one world champ universe as there is in being one of 4-5 title holders today so its not that big of a deal really.

Last edited by Eff Pandas; 11-20-2015 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 11-20-2015, 08:28 PM #57
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Fck yes. I don't want to see Garcia/Salsa fighting for a tittle. Bad enough they get away with such [email protected] but to add a tittle to it is just plain ridiculous
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Old 11-20-2015, 08:42 PM #58
DuttyAlacrity DuttyAlacrity is offline
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PBC no way man. This isn't wcw circa 95... World television championship. Lol Naaah pass
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:41 PM #59
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Doesn't matter dawg. Haymon is making the fights like they are catered to the small hardcore fans that will watch it anyway. These sorts of fights are of not good enough quality to lure casual fans.
Casual boxing fans who tune into midtier big fights don't exist I'd argue is the bigger problem with your suggestion. I kinda feel like PBC needs to create new fans of boxing or get old fans back into the sport more than they need to appeal to the people who only tune into Floyd vs Manny or maybe Canelo vs Cotto fights & probably will only ever tune into those caliber giant fights. Their the people who are watching Ronda get beat up last week & watch other giant UFC fights too, but will never be loyal fans of either sport thus attempting to cater to them is a lost cause or matching up the top guys you do have for people who don't know what they are watching yet is a waste to.

That said I still feel like PBC is putting on as many elite vs elite fights in a division as HBO is, but they aren't gonna match them up like that every week or every card.

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And why do people watch UFC? To see the matchups between the best fighters. So imagine the casual whose main frame of reference in boxing is PBC, a new watcher. Well that person would want to see Thurman against perhaps Garcia or Khan. But those are their top welters, and they had the bigger fights on PBC, the absolutely only way a casual even starts to care is seeing the guys in the big fights square off against each other.
PBC can't be the UFC yet is the problem with your argument. They don't got all the best fighters like the UFC does (nor do boxing fans look upon the sport like UFC fans do, a L in boxing is worse than a L in MMA, but thats a whole other topic).

HBO has the entire top ten P4P or something nuts like that. It's gonna take years before PBC is in the position HBO is now. And lets quit bsing, HBO isn't even matching their top fighters all the time so to act like PBC can do that when they don't even have the best fighters in most divisions yet is silly to suggest in particular while HBO is the gold standard in the sport & showing us Kovalev vs the Marco's Pizzeria assistant manager or GGG vs the ESPN2 champion.
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Old 11-20-2015, 09:47 PM #60
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Nope. Too many titles as it is and considering that PBC has so many mismatches, I can't get behind recognizing it.
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