Dont act like all ATGs faced ATG comp: they can only face whats in their era

[therealpugilist]

With the exception of some fighters like Muhammad Ali, Ezzard Charles, and Sugar Ray Leonard, most all time great fighters do not share an era with fighters that are their equal or just as great which is the reason why fighters like Joe Louis and Willie Pep had long tenures of dominance in their careers.

Most casual fans, even some who call themselves hardcore fans dont realize how rare it is for two or more truely great fighters to share a weight class and era.

Joe Louis is considered by many as the number one of two greatest heavyweight of all time. His title defenses were against pretty mediocre competition, no disrespect to him, but when the truely great fighters came along, he wasnt at his best like when he fought Charles and Marciano. I believe he could have beaten both. This does not take away from his accomplishments but he never faced a prime all time great. Is he an all-time great? Damn right he is!!!

Willie Pep is considered by most people to be the greatest featherweight champion of all time and arguably the defensive ever. He beat decent competition. Outside of bantamweight all-time great Manuel Ortiz and Saddler who though great, caught past prime, Pep fought decent competition. Saddler made his name of a high kayo % and 3 wins over a past prime Pep until proving himself during his own respective title reign.

My point, if you know anything about boxing, if you know anything about boxing, you know that it doesnt take an all-time great fighter to beat an all time great fighter. Also you can be an all-time great fighter without having a chance to face one. Its the body of work that counts over a fighters career

For example....Larry Holmes(at heavyweight), Roberto Duran(lightweight), Michael Spinks(lt. heavyweight), Eder Jofre(bantamweight) are all considered top 3 all time in their respective weight classes in their prime but never faced or defeated a prime all time great. What they did was dominate their era's and or moved up to fight larger fighters and win other titles to enhance their legacies.

Floyd Mayweather has done the same thing. Like Larry Holmes, his stock and appreciation will rise when he his gone. I dont personally care for his out of ring antics but just as the aforementioned ATGs their is no denying he is on another level from his peers as they were. regardless I guarantee when it is all said and done long retirement to be considered by many "experts" and "fans" to be a top ten all time great p4p. He will retire undefeated and in less than 50 fights he has already accomplished more than more beloved or lauded fighters.

[T18Z]

With the exception of some fighters like Muhammad Ali, Ezzard Charles, and Sugar Ray Leonard, most all time great fighters do not share an era with fighters that are their equal or just as great which is the reason why fighters like Joe Louis and Willie Pep had long tenures of dominance in their careers.

Most casual fans, even some who call themselves hardcore fans dont realize how rare it is for two or more truely great fighters to share a weight class and era.

Joe Louis is considered by many as the number one of two greatest heavyweight of all time. His title defenses were against pretty mediocre competition, no disrespect to him, but when the truely great fighters came along, he wasnt at his best like when he fought Charles and Marciano. I believe he could have beaten both. This does not take away from his accomplishments but he never faced a prime all time great. Is he an all-time great? Damn right he is!!!

Willie Pep is considered by most people to be the greatest featherweight champion of all time and arguably the defensive ever. He beat decent competition. Outside of bantamweight all-time great Manuel Ortiz and Saddler who though great, caught past prime, Pep fought decent competition. Saddler made his name of a high kayo % and 3 wins over a past prime Pep until proving himself during his own respective title reign.

My point, if you know anything about boxing, if you know anything about boxing, you know that it doesnt take an all-time great fighter to beat an all time great fighter. Also you can be an all-time great fighter without having a chance to face one. Its the body of work that counts over a fighters career

For example....Larry Holmes(at heavyweight), Roberto Duran(lightweight), Michael Spinks(lt. heavyweight), Eder Jofre(bantamweight) are all considered top 3 all time in their respective weight classes in their prime but never faced or defeated a prime all time great. What they did was dominate their era's and or moved up to fight larger fighters and win other titles to enhance their legacies.

Floyd Mayweather has done the same thing. Like Larry Holmes, his stock and appreciation will rise when he his gone. I dont personally care for his out of ring antics but just as the aforementioned ATGs their is no denying he is on another level from his peers as they were. regardless I guarantee when it is all said and done long retirement to be considered by many "experts" and "fans" to be a top ten all time great p4p. He will retire undefeated and in less than 50 fights he has already accomplished more than more beloved or lauded fighters.

In your opinion, out of both Pacquaio and Mayweather, using both as an example of only being able to face the people who are part out our era, who has the better resume and accomplishments through there whole career?

I think the answer is clear, and it isn't Mayweather. Just like I think it's clear Mayweather is technically far more gifted than Pacquaio, some things there's no shame in admitting, right?

[bklynboy]

With the exception of some fighters like Muhammad Ali, Ezzard Charles, and Sugar Ray Leonard, most all time great fighters do not share an era with fighters that are their equal or just as great which is the reason why fighters like Joe Louis and Willie Pep had long tenures of dominance in their careers.

Most casual fans, even some who call themselves hardcore fans dont realize how rare it is for two or more truely great fighters to share a weight class and era.

Joe Louis is considered by many as the number one of two greatest heavyweight of all time. His title defenses were against pretty mediocre competition, no disrespect to him, but when the truely great fighters came along, he wasnt at his best like when he fought Charles and Marciano. I believe he could have beaten both. This does not take away from his accomplishments but he never faced a prime all time great. Is he an all-time great? Damn right he is!!!

Willie Pep is considered by most people to be the greatest featherweight champion of all time and arguably the defensive ever. He beat decent competition. Outside of bantamweight all-time great Manuel Ortiz and Saddler who though great, caught past prime, Pep fought decent competition. Saddler made his name of a high kayo % and 3 wins over a past prime Pep until proving himself during his own respective title reign.

My point, if you know anything about boxing, if you know anything about boxing, you know that it doesnt take an all-time great fighter to beat an all time great fighter. Also you can be an all-time great fighter without having a chance to face one. Its the body of work that counts over a fighters career

For example....Larry Holmes(at heavyweight), Roberto Duran(lightweight), Michael Spinks(lt. heavyweight), Eder Jofre(bantamweight) are all considered top 3 all time in their respective weight classes in their prime but never faced or defeated a prime all time great. What they did was dominate their era's and or moved up to fight larger fighters and win other titles to enhance their legacies.

Floyd Mayweather has done the same thing. Like Larry Holmes, his stock and appreciation will rise when he his gone. I dont personally care for his out of ring antics but just as the aforementioned ATGs their is no denying he is on another level from his peers as they were. regardless I guarantee when it is all said and done long retirement to be considered by many "experts" and "fans" to be a top ten all time great p4p. He will retire undefeated and in less than 50 fights he has already accomplished more than more beloved or lauded fighters.

Clearing out your division is important. It's something that Mayweather has not done. Mayweather is a great boxer but he has not cleared out divisions (except -maybe- super featherweight). This hurts his legacy. The fact that he might or might not have beat people doesn't matter. He didn't face them and didn't take their belts.

[therealpugilist]

In your opinion, out of both Pacquaio and Mayweather, using both as an example of only being able to face the people who are part out our era, who has the better resume and accomplishments through there whole career?

I think the answer is clear, and it isn't Mayweather. Just like I think it's clear Mayweather is technically far more gifted than Pacquaio, some things things there's no shame in admitting, right?

This aint no *****/******* thread

Mayweather has a better resume and accomplishments thats just my opinion. Is far more technically gifted as well.

The facts are Mayweather has 15 less fights....has beaten more world champions, has beaten more world ranked fighters, won the same amount of lineal championships, has more title defenses of his titles, won more title fights and is undefeated. No vacant titles, all his titles were over ranked opposition.( Manny's so called eighth title was a joke, a catchweight against a non-ranked fighter just like Canelo over Hatton)

[therealpugilist]

Clearing out your division is important. It's something that Mayweather has not done. Mayweather is a great boxer but he has not cleared out divisions (except -maybe- super featherweight). This hurts his legacy. The fact that he might or might not have beat people doesn't matter. He didn't face them and didn't take their belts.

In every division he won a lineal title he beat the best fighter their....Hernandez, Corrales(130) Castillo (135) , Mosley(147) and Cotto, Alvarez(154)

you gotta admit he cleared out 130 in 26-28 fights...he had eight defenses and beat a hall of famer in his 18th pro fight for a lineal title. beat Hernandez, Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Goyo Vargas, Corrales, perrenial contender manfredy stopped all his best competition.

Freitas and Casamayor, he called them both out before he moved up and at that point neither proved much outside fighting each other and winning title trinkets against no names and fighting no names.

[T18Z]

This aint no *****/******* thread

Mayweather has a better resume and accomplishments thats just my opinion. Is far more technically gifted as well.

The facts are Mayweather has 15 less fights....has beaten more world champions, has beaten more world ranked fighters, won the same amount of lineal championships, has more title defenses of his titles, won more title fights and is undefeated. No vacant titles, all his titles were over ranked opposition.( Manny's so called eighth title was a joke, a catchweight against a non-ranked fighter just like Canelo over Hatton)

Canelo was at a catch-weight, and that's the 4th lineal title for Mayweather, so, it's kinda crap too. Also, 2/3 of Canelos belts were vacant when he obtained them. I'd call that a bit of a joke.

Here, enjoy this:

"You seem to be a big Manny Pacquiao fan and I can’t understand why. I do believe he is a special puncher and his foot speed is incredible, so I get the physical part. But his accomplishments are watered down. Most of his opponents are coming off of losses. Most of his fights are at catchweights. Everything seems to be made to order for him. Explain your infatuation with him?"

"Bread’s Response: You sound so stupid. Someone told you or you read somewhere that Pacquiao has fought a bunch of catchweight fights so you repeat it. You also must’ve been told that Pacquiao has fought a bunch of guys coming off of losses. So you repeat that too. Because I don’t repeat a bunch of lies that have been told on this man I’m infatuated with him. You are a complete idiot my friend. Only an idiot would repeat a lie as the truth and try to put someone down with it.

Let me explain something to you. I am a Manny fan. The reason being is because of how hard he had it. The first time I saw Manny fight was over 10 years ago and I saw a supreme talent. In about 2009 I saw all of his accomplishments come into question and I researched a few things. This may surprise you.In my research I found out that Pacquiao is the only 3 division champion in the history of boxing that was the underdog in his first 3 title tries. You may not realize the implications of that statement but let me spell it out for you. In boxing terms that is unheard of. Manny Pacquaio was being FED. Think about this, Adrien Broner just won his 3rd title. He was of similar age to Manny for each of his titles. He was the overwhelming favorite in ALL of his title tries.

Manny fought Chatchai Sasakul who was 33-1 when Manny fought him. Manny was just 19 years old. Sasakul was the deal. So good in fact he gave Yuri Arbachakov his only career loss. Some consider Arbachakov the BEST flyweight of the 90’s. That’s how good he was. The fight between Manny and Sasakul is on youtube. You can see Manny was over his head, he was just a gun and he persevered and scored a dramatic come from behind ko.*In his next title try he fought he fought Lehlo Ledwaba. Dude was a monster and considered to be the best fighter at 122. Manny was like a 6 to 1 underdog. He destroyed him. Manny was just 22 when he did that.

Then in his next title try he fights the 3rd best p4p fighter in the world in Marco Antonio Barerra and he beats him to a pulp. Now Manny is a 3 division champion at 24 years old and he was the underdog in all of his title tries. And he beat the best fighter in the division to win each of those titles.Then Manny takes on Juan Manuel Marquez to unify in his very next fight. The promoters didn’t give him any stay busy show case fights…….. He gets a draw.

Then he engages in his trilogy with Eric Morales. Morales was coming off of a 12 round majority decision loss in the fight of the year to Barrera. Pacquiao haters act like Morales was kod in 1 round and then fought Pacquiao. There was nothing wrong with that fight. Did I add it was at 130, Pacquiao was yet moving up again. Morales has just had big HBO fights with Marcos Maidana and Danny Garcia recently but Pac gets flack for fighting him at 130lbs 8 years ago. Unbelievable.*He settles things with Morales, fights Barrera in a rematch and then goes for his 4th title vs an all time great in Marquez. So in 4 title tries the one time he is the favorite is against the best fighter he has faced. Next he fights David Diaz in his 5th title try a fight in which Pacquiao got criticized. But Diaz was33-1 and he had just beat Morales. It was Pacquiao’s first fight at 135. Next he gets the Oscar call.

I am going to ask you why would Oscar want to make Manny look good. Manny made himself look good by fighting the perfect fight against a man that was 3 divisions bigger and 6 inches taller. He was being fed again, he just didn’t cooperate.Next he goes for his 6th title try against Ricky Hatton. He almost kills Hatton. So let’s keep track in 6 title tries he was the underdog 3x. He also fought the best fighter in the division 5 out of 6 times, the only time he didn’t was against David Diaz. Next he fights Miguel Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs and destroys him. That’s his 7th title and the 6th time he fought the best guy in the division for the title. Remember Floyd was just coming out of retirement at this time.

Despite what people try to say. Oscar, Hatton and Cotto were all coming off of wins not losses. Oscar had just beat Steve Forbes, Hatton had just beat Paulie Malignaggi. In fact he stopped him in 2008 when Adrien Broner couldn’t last month. And Cotto had just beat Michael Jennings and Joshua Clottey. So up until that point only Morales was coming off of a loss and he’s the only fighter to beat Manny in that decade, go figure smart guy.

Next up we have Joshua Clottey who was coming off of a split decision loss. Some people say he beat Cotto but if those same people don’t like Pacman they say Clottey was coming off of a loss. Mike Alvarado will be fighting Ruslan Provodnikov coming off of one of those same losses. There is nothing wrong with that.Then Pac fights Margarito at a stupid catchweight but I don’t believe it benefited him. Margarito was never more than a BIG welter to me, so they let him come in at 150 and he rehydrated up to 165. He took away Pac’s prime in that fight. Then Pac picked on a shot Shane Mosley. I have no problem admitting that.

Next he fights undefeated Tim Bradley sandwiched by two Marquez fights. Now he’s fighting Brandon Rios coming off of a razor close loss in his comeback fight after being violently kod.What favors has this man been done? Seriously. I’m telling you straight up there is no way I would let my fighters fight the kind of killers that Pacquiao has, multiple times, giving up that kind of experience,weight and height. The one guy who gave him trouble, they made him fight 4x…. He was robbed against Bradley….. He gave up so much size to Margarito that he laid in bed for 3 days AFTER the fight.

I can go on and on.*Tell me another modern fighter that has had to go through that. And I only named the BIG fights and title wins. People like to repeat lies and nonsense about this guy. But the truth is he has had it harder than any fighter in recent history. You guys talk about catchweights but not so much anymore. I wonder why. I won’t bring up Floyd because I am actually a big fan of his also. Yes guys, you can be a Pacman and Moneyman fan at the same time. But Floyd hasn’t had it nearly as rough as PAcquiao, especially coming up.

But let’s get back to catchweights. Pacquiao asked for 2 catchweights, Cotto and Margarito. Marquez asked for two also. Both times 144 against Pacquiao and Mayweather and no one speaks a word about it. Cotto who was supposedly opposed to catchweights, asked for one against Margarito. Somebody hit up Margarito’s trainer on twitter and he will tell you the deal. They settled at an asinine 153 but because Margarito was a cheater nobody cared.Paul Williams fought Sergio Martinez at 157 and no one spoke a word about it. The great Bernard Hopkins fought Kelly Pavlik and Winky Wright at 170lbs and we don’t talk about it. Now the best fighter in the world is fighting Saul Alvarez at 152lbs but yet Manny PAcquiao is the Catchweight King. I only named recent big fights. Go figure again…. #TRUTH

I am a fan of Manny’s but I am more of a TRUTH ADVOCATE. The guy gets a bad rap but no one can give me a valid reason why. What special tailor made fighters that Manny has benefited from? He has fought the for the most part the best available guys, of all colors, styles, height and weights. I’m curious to know about this special matchmaking. Before Manny and Floyd had their public feud nobody talked bad about him. All I’m saying is have your own mind. Manny Pacquiao is the most accomplished fighter of this generation and out of all of the elite fighters of the past 15 years he has had by far the roughest road up"

[SkillspayBills]

Without a shadow of a doubt after Floyd is retired they will consider him a top 10, if not top 5 ATG fighter. Even if he loses before his last fight.

[bklynboy]

In every division he won a lineal title he beat the best fighter their....Hernandez, Corrales(130) Castillo (135) , Mosley(147) and Cotto, Alvarez(154)

you gotta admit he cleared out 130 in 26-28 fights...he had eight defenses and beat a hall of famer in his 18th pro fight for a lineal title. beat Hernandez, Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Goyo Vargas, Corrales, perrenial contender manfredy stopped all his best competition.

Freitas and Casamayor, he called them both out before he moved up and at that point neither proved much outside fighting each other and winning title trinkets against no names and fighting no names.

Beating the lineal champ is all nice and good. But winning all the belts is better.

Its not easy to do the match-ups, too many times rival boxing organizations don't want the match ups to take place. Still Duran cleaned out the lightweight division. Hank Armstrong was the man (he didn't share the crown, someone else didn't have a belt). At lightweight, superlightweight, welterweight there were always others. These others create the problems.

Imagine, if you will, the same scenario in other sports. Imagine that sometimes the super bowl didn't come off because of contract disputes. Image one team (the Patriots) wins all their games in a particular year and they never get to play the NY Giants because of one disagreement or another. Then Patriot fans might say - "of course they would have beat the Giants."

No. Therein lies the problem. You have to clear out your division. In my opinion your all-time legacy goes down by not having done so.

Another football example. In the early 1990s the Buffalo Bills were a dominant team. They went to the Super Bowl 4 times and lost. Imagine if these "belt unification" games never took place. How easy it would be to imagine that Buffalo would have won 2 or more of these games. It would be unimaginable that Buffalo would have lost all 4. But that's what happened.

We can imagine all the **** we want but ultimately two men have to enter the ring for us to know.

[therealpugilist]

Canelo was at a catch-weight, and that's the 4th lineal title for Mayweather, so, it's kinda crap too. Also, 2/3 of Canelos belts were vacant when he obtained them. I'd call that a bit of a joke.

Here, enjoy this:

didnt read it....MARGarito wasn't EVEN ranked are you serious...wow one pound less than his last fight...he was drained lol

Canelo did face number 2 trout before facing may so it was one versus 2....sad attempt

[T18Z]

didnt read it....MARGarito wasn't EVEN ranked are you serious...wow one pound less than his last fight...he was drained lol

Canelo did face number 2 trout before facing may so it was one versus 2....sad attempt

The fact you didn't read it is all I need to know. People usually ignore stuff they refuse to admit is right.

Also it was 1.5 pounds less than his last fight, best to know the facts beforehand ey?