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Originally posted by 1bad65 View PostNot sure what you're saying in relation to that 70% figure.
You are correct, poverty knows no color.
But crime is not an effect of poverty.
If it were, Appalachia would have the same massive crime stats as our inner cities, and during the Great Depression we would have seen the nation's highest crime rates on record.
It's all about how the children are raised, and who does and doesn't raise them.
Look at the heroin epidemic vs the crack epidemic.
I've seen documentaries on Appalachia and looked at stats, NONE of them have ever been targeted by police like inner city blacks have been.... It's never happen despite more drugs being in white communities.
If anything, Appalachia is a testament to the fact that mass incarceration, War on Drugs, etc was never based on "drugs", more so than it was an excuse to lock up blacks. Statistics prove this.
War zones were created by incarceration, That's the point.
Look at the Coronavirus pandemic and how scared people are, gun stores are selling out, etc... If white people can't feed their family AND you lock them up at alarming rates for bs petty crimes like they've done with blacks, you don't think white people won't turn violent?
Of course you'll think I'm Sunspace now.Last edited by Chollo Vista; 03-25-2020, 05:21 AM.
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Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostI was waiting on you to say this.
Please, st least be honest and quit playing games.
Either engage me in adult debate or just stay quiet as you said you would. Sound fair?
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostIf Appalachia has drug problems, why weren't they affected by the War on Drugs or locked up like blacks during Mass incarceration?
The word "if" should have been a dead giveaway.
But either way, the fact remains, crime is not an effect of poverty.
Because again, if it were Appalachia would have the same high crime rates, and not just with drug crimes, that inner cities do.
They do not. Not even close.
So logic dictates that there must be other factors at play.
Do you want to discuss those? I'm sure up for it....
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostMillions of black families were ruined by the War on drugs and mass incarceration, yet Appalachia has no history of being targeted by police?
Look at the heroin epidemic vs the crack epidemic.
The discussion is about poverty causing crime, not about race.
And, you're hung up solely on drug crimes. But that's part of crime statistics.
You know full well if we start discussing crime rates on murder, rape, robbery, etc, it's going to go very, very badly for you.
What say we just avoid that?
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostI've seen documentaries on Appalachia and looked at stats, NONE of them have ever been targeted by police like inner city blacks have been.... It's never happen despite more drugs being in white communities.
You do know cops go to where the crime is, don't you?
If you dont want cops all over your neighborhoods, start cleaning them up.
We dont have much crime in my neighborhood, and golly gee we dont see cops left and right arresting people all day and night.
Go figure.
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostIf anything, Appalachia is a testament to the fact that mass incarceration, War on Drugs, etc was never based on "drugs", more so than it was an excuse to lock up blacks. Statistics prove this.
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostWar zones were created by incarceration, That's the point.
Idiot, war zones are caused by people killing each other.
Which is what ghetto rats do, but the people of Appalachia dont.
If you quit acting like savages you'll quit getting locked up.
It's not a difficult concept, if one isnt a racist and and idiot.
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostLook at the Coronavirus pandemic and how scared people are, gun stores are selling out, etc... If white people can't feed their family AND you lock them up at alarming rates for bs petty crimes like they've done with blacks, you don't think white people won't turn violent?
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostOf course you'll think I'm Sunspace now.
He was a fat white loser, and you're a fat 'White Hispanic' loser.
Y'all are indeed birds of a feather, but not the same person.
And dont try and speak for me. Best to stick to mimicking me instead.Last edited by 1bad65; 03-25-2020, 09:47 AM.
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Originally posted by 1bad65 View PostI considered it racist. Without question.
But if not racist, you gotta admit it's straight up race-baiting.
I just call it as I see it.
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Originally posted by 1bad65 View PostAnd I was waiting for you to reply to me.
Please, st least be honest and quit playing games.
Either engage me in adult debate or just stay quiet as you said you would. Sound fair?
Calls for conjecture
The word "if" should have been a dead giveaway.
But either way, the fact remains, crime is not an effect of poverty.
Because again, if it were Appalachia would have the same high crime rates, and not just with drug crimes, that inner cities do.
They do not. Not even close.
So logic dictates that there must be other factors at play.
Do you want to discuss those? I'm sure up for it....
How about we just keep race and your race baiting our of this. Is that too much to ask?
The discussion is about poverty causing crime, not about race.
And, you're hung up solely on drug crimes. But that's part of crime statistics.
You know full well if we start discussing crime rates on murder, rape, robbery, etc, it's going to go very, very badly for you.
What say we just avoid that?
Do you think it might just happen to be because the Appalachian people arent slaughtering each other in the streets (and committing other violent crimes as well) like we see in the inner cities?
You do know cops go to where the crime is, don't you?
If you dont want cops all over your neighborhoods, start cleaning them up.
We dont have much crime in my neighborhood, and golly gee we dont see cops left and right arresting people all day and night.
Go figure.
No they dont prove anything, but keep on trying to justify your racism.
Are you high on drugs yourself????
Idiot, war zones are caused by people killing each other.
Which is what ghetto rats do, but the people of Appalachia dont.
If you quit acting like savages you'll quit getting locked up.
It's not a difficult concept, if one isnt a racist and and idiot.
More conjecture, and its dripping with racism.
No, not at all.
He was a fat white loser, and you're a fat 'White Hispanic' loser.
Y'all are indeed birds of a feather, but not the same person.
And dont try and speak for me. Best to stick to mimicking me instead.
This coward hides behind code language, but accuses me of racism?
Yes WAR ZONES were created because micro policing, poverty and introduction to drugs turned them into war zones which is what they REFUSE to do in places like Appalachia
Just as I said, you are the J Edgar Hoover of the lounge... The biggest racist in the lounge that runs around trying to get people locked up for racism.Last edited by Chollo Vista; 03-25-2020, 11:20 AM.
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Originally posted by 1bad65 View PostAnd I was waiting for you to reply to me.
Please, st least be honest and quit playing games.
Either engage me in adult debate or just stay quiet as you said you would. Sound fair?
Calls for conjecture
The word "if" should have been a dead giveaway.
But either way, the fact remains, crime is not an effect of poverty.
Because again, if it were Appalachia would have the same high crime rates, and not just with drug crimes, that inner cities do.
They do not. Not even close.
So logic dictates that there must be other factors at play.
Do you want to discuss those? I'm sure up for it....
"Law enforcement not only disproportionately targeted cities in its new war on drugs
but it also particularly policed the communities of color within them; this, despite extensive
and readily available data that these areas were not where most drug trafficking and
usage took place. As studies done by the National Institute on Drug Abuse and the National
Household Survey on Drug Abuse noted in 2000, not only did “white students use
cocaine at seven times the rate of black students, use crack cocaine at eight times the rate
of black students, and use heroin at seven times the rate of black students,” but whites between the ages of twelve and seventeen were also “more than a third more likely to have sold illegal drugs than African American youth.”
"In 1978,for example, Michigan passed a “650 lifer law,” which mandated a life sentence for anyone
found guilty of the intent to deliver 650 grams or more of cocaine. By 1999 this law
had resulted in two hundred people receiving a life sentence with no chance of parole—
some of whom had not had drugs in their possession but were simply in proximity to
someone who did."
"The nation’s welfare system failed to mitigate much of this post-incarceration poverty because, after passage of the Personal
Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, offenders with drugrelated
felonies were saddled with “a lifetime ban on eligibility for tanf [Temporary Assistance
for Needy Families] . . . and food stamps.” Even when the formerly incarcerated
still qualified for federal and state aid, there was increasingly less to receive over the course
of the later postwar period. Almost a decade before the Clinton administration chose to
“end welfare as we know it” in the mid-1990s, expenditures on incarceration had already
“surpassed afdc [Aid to Families with Dependent Children] by 130 percent and food
stamps by 70 percent.”25
How about we just keep race and your race baiting our of this. Is that too much to ask?
The discussion is about poverty causing crime, not about race.
Prisons not only impoverished people, leading them to commit more crimes of necessity, but they also made people more violent and antisocial. Not surprisingly then, the homicide rate jumped from 6.8 per 100,000 in 1967, when Lyndon B. Johnson was heading into his last year in office, to 10.5 per 100,000 in 1991, after more than a decade of solidly conservative rule, a thorough retreat from the liberal welfare state, and the unprecedented buildup of the carceral state. Moreover, while the violent crime rate in 1965 was 200.2 per 100,000, it grew to 556.6 in 1985 and to 684.6 in 1995
And, you're hung up solely on drug crimes. But that's part of crime statistics.
You know full well if we start discussing crime rates on murder, rape, robbery, etc, it's going to go very, very badly for you.
What say we just avoid that?
Do you think it might just happen to be because the Appalachian people arent slaughtering each other in the streets (and committing other violent crimes as well) like we see in the inner cities?
If you dont want cops all over your neighborhoods, start cleaning them up.
Which is what ghetto rats do, but the people of Appalachia dont. If you quit acting like savages you'll quit getting locked up.
He was a fat white loser, and you're a fat 'White Hispanic' loser.
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1bad65
Originally posted by 1bad65 View Post
How about we just keep race and your race baiting our of this. Is that too much to ask?
The discussion is about poverty causing crime, not about race.
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~oliver/RACI...nses_1rate.png
Whites were about 45 percent more likely than blacks to sell drugs in 1980, according to an analysis of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth by economist Robert Fairlie. This was consistent with a 1989 survey of youth in Boston. My own analysis of data from the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows that 6.6 percent of white adolescents and young adults (aged 12 to 25) sold drugs, compared to just 5.0 percent of blacks (a 32 percent difference).
Since blacks are more likely to be arrested than whites on drug charges, they are more likely to acquire the convictions that ultimately lead to higher rates of incarceration. Although the data in this backgrounder indicate that blacks represent about one-third of drug arrests, they constitute 46 percent of persons convicted of drug felonies in state courts. Among black defendants convicted of drug offenses, 71 percent received sentences to incarceration in contrast to 63 percent of convicted white drug offenders. Human Rights Watch analysis of prison admission data for 2003 revealed that relative to population, blacks are 10.1 times more likely than whites to be sent to prison for drug offenses.23" - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Race....lFvNAqc9.dpuf
The war on drugs has vilified the black community more than ever.
The social mobility of black Americans has suffered collateral damage from the “War on Drugs.” Being convicted of a crime has devastating effects on the employment prospects and incomes of ex-felons and their children, as my Brookings colleagues and other scholars have found. These findings are often used to motivate efforts to reduce criminal behavior. They should also motivate changes in our criminal justice system, which unfairly punishes black Americans—often for victimless crimes that whites are at least as likely to commit.
Imprisoning One in Three Black Men
An estimated one-third of black male Americans will spend time in state or federal prison at some point in their lifetime – more than double the rate from the 1970s and over five times higher than the rate for white males.
What’s driving the imprisonment of black men? Arrest data show a striking trend: arrests of blacks have fallen for violent and property crimes, but soared for drug related crimes. As of 2011, drug crimes comprised 14 percent of all arrests and a miscellaneous category that includes “drug paraphernalia” possession comprised an additional 31 percent of all arrests. Just 6 percent and 14 percent of arrests were for violent and property crimes, respectively.
The black share of people arrested for drug offenses has ranged from 23 percent (in 1980) to 41 percent (in 1991). Blacks remain far more likely than whites to be arrested for selling drugs (3.6 times more likely) or possessing drugs (2.5 times more likely).
…Even Though Whites Are Equally Likely to Sell and Use Drugs
Here’s the real shock: whites are actually more likely than blacks to sell drugs and about as likely to consume them.
Whites were about 45 percent more likely than blacks to sell drugs in 1980, according to an analysis of the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth by economist Robert Fairlie. This was consistent with a 1989 survey of youth in Boston. My own analysis of data from the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health shows that 6.6 percent of white adolescents and young adults (aged 12 to 25) sold drugs, compared to just 5.0 percent of blacks (a 32 percent difference).
As for drug use, just 10 percent of blacks report using illegal drugs within the last month, which is not statistically different than the rate for whites. Among college students, 25 percent of whites reported illegal drug use within the last month but just 20 percent of black students. I find a higher percentage of whites than blacks report ever consuming illegal drugs.
Drug-Related Incarceration Damages Upward Mobility
In her new book, legal scholar Michelle Alexander offers a thorough examination of the relationship between law, policing and race. It is a complex story. But one thing is clear. The drug war has a profoundly negative effect on racial equality, and on rates of upward mobility.
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/socia...ility-rothwell
Now, you might ask, "How does this lead to creating war zones"?
Prisons not only impoverished people, leading them to commit more crimes of necessity, but they also made people more violent and antisocial. Not surprisingly then, the homicide rate jumped from 6.8 per 100,000 in 1967, when Lyndon B. Johnson was heading into his last year in office, to 10.5 per 100,000 in 1991, after more than a decade of solidly conservative rule, a thorough retreat from the liberal welfare state, and the unprecedented buildup of the carceral state. Moreover, while the violent crime rate in 1965 was 200.2 per 100,000, it grew to 556.6 in 1985 and to 684.6 in 1995
Of course Appalachia isn't a war zone, they couldn't handle 1/10 of the schit we've been through.Last edited by Chollo Vista; 03-25-2020, 12:14 PM.
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Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostThis coward hides behind code language, but accuses me of racism?
I was actually quite blunt and straight-forward as I typically am.
You don't see the high murder (and other violent crimes) rates in Appalachia that you see in inner cities.
It is what it is.
Quit trying to call facts racist.
And don't go calling me a coward for saying those facts and realities you can't accept.
If you don't like the facts, perhaps discussing them just isn't for you.
Originally posted by Chollo Vista View PostYes WAR ZONES were created because micro policing, poverty and introduction to drugs turned them into war zones which is what they REFUSE to do in places like Appalachia
Just as I said, you are the J Edgar Hoover of the lounge... The biggest racist in the lounge that runs around trying to get people locked up for racism.
Ok, I'll concede this point for purposes of moving forward.
There was this vast racist conspiracy to keep the black community down. It's worked. The black community is suffering as a result. You've got it all figured out there.
So how do your people move forward out of their rut?
Do they value the family unit and put value on educating their children so they can get out of the ghetto and into a better neighborhood?
Do they report crimes and work with police to get criminals off the streets so their communities will be safe for the law-abiding people who live there?
Do they blame others, refuse to father their own children, mock those who choose to educate themselves, and side with criminals over the police?
Do they choose as their community leaders guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who enrich themselves but never seem to lift up their communities? Do they keep voting for the same people who have for over 60 years made them the same empty promises every election season?
Do they go online, call everyone racist who disagrees with them, and even go out and actually fight anonymous people who argue with them on the Internet?
You tell me.....what steps do you think your people should take to try and better themselves and correct this horrible injustice?
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