How would a well motivated undistracted Tyson have fought in his 30s?

[Rusty Tromboni]

His style wasn't designed for it. He carried a lot of muscle on his 5'10 frame which he was using a very explosive and athletic peak a boo style for, it caused a ton of wear and tear on his back, knees and other joints with that kind of training and fighting. he would never be better in his 30s.

The truth is that they designed Tyson's bobbing and weaving, which was extremely taxing on the body, to be effective in the early and mid portion of the fight. By that point he should have already scored a KO or be ahead on the cards by a wide margin. You can see it in all of his fights, that great defense that his fans cream over would decrease significantly by the middle of the fight if the opponent lasted long enough. It uses way too much energy for a guy who carries that much muscle mass.

Well said.

However, I'd ask you to reference Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.

Tyson could not have maintained that style for a protracted period of time, but he could certainly make adaptations that would make him "better" overall.

Duran is another example. In fact, his most memorable fights apparently are the ones where he was far removed from his physical prime.

For the less initiated, I'll point out Mayweather: did he fight Canelo the same way he fought Hernandez or Castillo? Which fight was the clearest shut-out/most masterful performance?

[TonyGe]

Well said.

However, I'd ask you to reference Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.

Tyson could not have maintained that style for a protracted period of time, but he could certainly make adaptations that would make him "better" overall.

Duran is another example. In fact, his most memorable fights apparently are the ones where he was far removed from his physical prime.

Duran is another example of what exactly??

[Rusty Tromboni]

Duran is another example of what exactly??

Quick: what was Duran's best performance?

[TonyGe]

Quick: what was Duran's best performance?

I'm curious as to why you used Duran as an example. You must have had a reason. So what is it.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I'm curious as to why you used Duran as an example. You must have had a reason. So what is it.

You've never watched Duran?

Duran is about as clear an example as you'll find of a fighter adapting to the predicament.

The guy who dissected Cuevas, beat Barkley and almost dethroned Hagler was very different from the man beat Buchanan and DeJesus III.

As fighters age/gain weight/match with larger opponents, their style can change.

With Duran that should be a given.

Have you seen anyone better on film?

[TonyGe]

You've never watched Duran?

Duran is about as clear an example as you'll find of a fighter adapting to the predicament.

The guy who dissected Cuevas, beat Barkley and almost dethroned Hagler was very different from the man beat Buchanan and DeJesus III.

As fighters age/gain weight/match with larger opponents, their style can change.

With Duran that should be a given.

Have you seen anyone better on film?

My two favorite fighters all time are Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran. So yeah I've seen Duran fight. I was simply asking you to explain your reasoning.

[Luilun]

Based on that scenario could an early 30s Tyson have actually been a better boxer than his early 20s self?

Of the big 3 current HW's (leaving aside Ruiz for the moment) I don't think anyone would argue Johsua, Fury and Wilder were better in their early 20s than now in their early 30s.

No boxers who turn pro at 18 are usually burned out by 30 unless you fight once a year and make everyone miss like Mayweather

[QueensburyRules]

No boxers who turn pro at 18 are usually burned out by 30 unless you fight once a year and make everyone miss like Mayweather

- -Canelo, JCChavez, Manny, Jimmy McLarnin, ect as infinitum turned pro 15-16.

Not TUE 51-0...

[a.rihn]

Tyson could not have maintained that style for a protracted period of time, but he could certainly make adaptations that would make him "better" overall.

In reality, of course, he never did make those types of adaptations. As his speed decreased and he became flat-footed, he just became more and more of a target.

I think the OP, referring to the possibility of a "well motivated" and "undistracted" Tyson focused on his mental space, which is certainly a fair point and worth considering. But now a new wrinkle - would it have even been physically possible to make adaptions to his style?

[Rusty Tromboni]

In reality, of course, he never did make those types of adaptations. As his speed decreased and he became flat-footed, he just became more and more of a target.

I think the OP, referring to the possibility of a "well motivated" and "undistracted" Tyson focused on his mental space, which is certainly a fair point and worth considering. But now a new wrinkle - would it have even been physically possible to make adaptions to his style?

I don't think the narrative about D'Amato and ROoney is overstated. Tyson was a headcase who was terribly abused and need stability in his life. With them gone, he went off the rails.

Tyson had good trainers. I don't doubt that he would he become a better inside fighter.

Beyond that, who knows. But it's very likely that he could have continued to succeed.

They learned a lot since Patterson.