Do you rank Larry Holmes above Rocky Marciano?

[ShoulderRoll]

Holmes was crass to say that Marciano couldn't carry his jockstrap.

But was he right?

[phallus]

holmes was funny, but if Marciano gets to his body, and I think he would, larry would get a bad beating. ezzard Charles had way better footwork than holmes and he couldn't get away from rocky. holmes would bust rocky's face up with his jab but he'd have to eat a few Suzie Qs to the body and head while he was doing it. i'll never forget seeing that picture of Walcott's face caved in from one of Marciano's right hands, holmes would talk tough until he had to eat one of Marciano's power punches

[Joe Beamish]

It's hard to say, they're both great, and neither faced an opponent much like the other. Head to head I really don't know.

Marciano would not fare as well in a mythical round robin of all great heavyweights, because he was just too small. I'd give Holmes an advantage over a lot of guys (e.g, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis) that I don't think Marciano could have defeated.

But P4P, I might give Marciano the edge.

[GatorMark]

I just think Larry was too big for Rocky. With Larry's all time great jab I think he could've kept Marciano at bay for 15 rounds. However if Rocky touched him cleanly the fight would be over...even though Larry had an incredible chin with amazing recuperative powers. But I just don't think Rocky would have been able to touch him.

[The Old LefHook]

You see what even the thought of Rocky did to big Larry. He would have been a fool to speak that way of a living Marciano, and was, as usual, a bigger one for speaking that way of a dead Rocky.

In an eight foot ring Rocky still beats the larger Holmes. In the parking lot sized rings where boxers fight, Holmes simply goes black and jabs the Rock's face from the outside until it starts to burgerize. Holmes, however, could not stay on his toes all night like young Clay. Eventually he will go flat footed because he has to, but also because he is big Larry who always wanted to prove he was the Baaaddddddddest man anywhere!

Let me put it this way: I do not believe Holmes punches any harder than Marciano. In fact, in spite of their size difference, I do not believe Holmes punches quite as hard as Marciano. Rocky characteristically got every ounce behind his punches, Holmes characteristically didn't.

Holmes had a split personality in the ring that could work against him. He never quite figured out if he was another fancy black fighter or big bad Larry the street brawler who said mean things as he beat you.

There is quite a bit you cannot complain about with Holmes as a fighter. Almost every category across the board was above average. Besides the split personality weakness which interferes with ring generalship, his weakest catergory was punching power itself. This is true because I can off the top of my head name 50 heavyweights who punched harder than Holmes before I even have to pause for the next 50 I am sure to name.

Rocky's Haymaker was maybe as hard as Norton's, who usually could not get all his strength into his punches. It takes a lot of technique to get the maximum out of your punches. Read Dempsey, read Dempsey, read Dempsey, he is the master of us all in power techniques. I do not know how well Rock had his own power analyzed, I just know he had big power for his size.

On a machine to measure punching force, Norton would beat Marciano, because the huger man could put more mass against a motionless target. But in the ring where you have to move and defend yourself, Rock was much better at getting everything into a punch--Norton seldom did it, Rocky often did it.

Pound for pound, the contest is not even close between Rocky and Holmes--Rocky is the superior P4P fighter. He would simply destroy a Holmes scaled down to his actual size. And could you ever imagine Holmes overcoming a 6'1", 215 lbs. Marciano? I don't think so.

[Canelo and GGG]

Holmes is better then Rocky in every way,he would KO him with couple Rounds ,ALi,Holmes,Lewis etc is not Rocky league just stop.Small HW from 40s from weak era ,he was great in his times but thats it,I would put Holmes in any H2H in HW history and give him good chance ,with Rocky i can find tons of boxers who would beat him.

[joseph5620]

Holmes was crass to say that Marciano couldn't carry his jockstrap.

But was he right?

I don't see how you can't when you consider how long Holmes was on top compared to Marciano's relatively breif reign as heavyweight champion.

[joseph5620]

You see what even the thought of Rocky did to big Larry. He would have been a fool to speak that way of a living Marciano, and was, as usual, a bigger one for speaking that way of a dead Rocky.

In an eight foot ring Rocky still beats the larger Holmes. In the parking lot sized rings where boxers fight, Holmes simply goes black and jabs the Rock's face from the outside until it starts to burgerize. Holmes, however, could not stay on his toes all night like young Clay. Eventually he will go flat footed because he has to, but also because he is big Larry who always wanted to prove he was the Baaaddddddddest man anywhere!

Let me put it this way: I do not believe Holmes punches any harder than Marciano. In fact, in spite of their size difference, I do not believe Holmes punches quite as hard as Marciano. Rocky characteristically got every ounce behind his punches, Holmes characteristically didn't.

Holmes had a split personality in the ring that could work against him. He never quite figured out if he was another fancy black fighter or big bad Larry the street brawler who said mean things as he beat you.

There is quite a bit you cannot complain about with Holmes as a fighter. Almost every category across the board was above average. Besides the split personality weakness which interferes with ring generalship, his weakest catergory was punching power itself. This is true because I can off the top of my head name 50 heavyweights who punched harder than Holmes before I even have to pause for the next 50 I am sure to name.

Rocky's Haymaker was maybe as hard as Norton's, who usually could not get all his strength into his punches. It takes a lot of technique to get the maximum out of your punches. Read Dempsey, read Dempsey, read Dempsey, he is the master of us all in power techniques. I do not know how well Rock had his own power analyzed, I just know he had big power for his size.

On a machine to measure punching force, Norton would beat Marciano, because the huger man could put more mass against a motionless target. But in the ring where you have to move and defend yourself, Rock was much better at getting everything into a punch--Norton seldom did it, Rocky often did it.

Pound for pound, the contest is not even close between Rocky and Holmes--Rocky is the superior P4P fighter. He would simply destroy a Holmes scaled down to his actual size. And could you ever imagine Holmes overcoming a 6'1", 215 lbs. Marciano? I don't think so.

I don't know why people use this to make their point. If Marciano was 6-1 215 he wouldn't be Rocky Marciano. He would be a completely different fighter. All you can do is compare as they were in reality.

[ShoulderRoll]

Yeah, I don't see how P4P factors into the discussion given the fact that they were both heavyweights.

You can easily compare their resumes historically and talk about how they would match up head to head, because they were in the same division.

It's not like comparing Joe Louis to Sugar Ray Robinson or something.

[Humean]

Neither fought in vintage eras although I think Holmes's much maligned era looks better in retrospect that it seemed at the time. There can be no case for Marciano above Holmes, Marciano was only on top for 3 years versus Holmes's 7. The head to head comparison though is a little unfair as they may both be classed as heavyweights but they are significantly different in size and weight. However I certainly do think Holmes was the better fighter of the two.