Hagler vs Monzon

[Anthony342]

As the fellow above mentioned, the same could be said about Monzon.

As for the Leonard fight it should be taken into account how old and how long hagler had been fighting for.

It should also be taken into account that it was Leonard who "quit like a *****" in 1984 when the Hagler-Leonard fight was being talked about earlier and Hagler was still in his prime. Then when Hagler demanded a rematch, Leonard once again "quit like a *****" by retiring again and only after Hagler retired did Leonard THEN make a comeback to fight Lalonde. So, if anyone is the ***** here, it's Leonard, who waited until Hagler got old to finally fight him and caught Duran when he was trying to make weight in the rematch, which wasn't as bad as waiting 9 more years to give him the rubber match.

[Anthony342]

And if anyone is Sonny, it would be McNulty.

[OctoberRed]

My God what a fight. I think Hagler would win a tough decision, keep it close on the inside and grind his way to a tight win.

[club fighter]

I'd bet on Hagler just due to the level of opposition. Over-the-hill Emile Griffith was still poking around the division then and I think he (Griffith) started out in the 50's, so the middleweight division in the 70's couldn't have been that deep.

He fought Hearns, Mugabe, Hamsho, that's a tough bunch.

[billeau2]

And if anyone is Sonny, it would be McNulty.

I had a dream last night...I was feeling dread so In the dream I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror, I went berserk and ripped my face off and there was mcnulty, I ripped his face off and there was Juan, so I ripped again and there was sonny demanding that I eat a piece of chicken from Bowe's restaurant. Sonny then told me Mike Tyson was going to meet us and that he had gone to the Queen personally to make sure he could visit Sonny's to see Sonny's tape collection.

[billeau2]

Tough call. Does Hagler make it inside? Can Monzon use his reach and keep Marvin honest?

Perhaps we can think of Tommy Hearns as similar in some respects to Monzon? he had reach, Tommy's punch, etc. But did Monzon ever fight an opponent similar to Hagler? Based on this precedent Hagler looks good, except wasn't Monzon bigger? maybe even a little physically stronger than Hearns? though Hearns had the better punching.

Monzon could do so much more than what he looked like, hard to bet against him frankly.

[Anthony342]

I had a dream last night...I was feeling dread so In the dream I went to the bathroom and looked in the mirror, I went berserk and ripped my face off and there was mcnulty, I ripped his face off and there was Juan, so I ripped again and there was sonny demanding that I eat a piece of chicken from Bowe's restaurant. Sonny then told me Mike Tyson was going to meet us and that he had gone to the Queen personally to make sure he could visit Sonny's to see Sonny's tape collection.

And I imagine have a look at his copy of the Robinson-Gavilan fight he claims to have, that nobody else has.

[billeau2]

And I imagine have a look at his copy of the Robinson-Gavilan fight he claims to have, that nobody else has.

When Tyson was stopped at the border in England he just said he was there to see Sonny, they let him right in.

[The Old LefHook]

Marv had the mental vulnerability that he could be affected by the press and by popular opinions, and literally his own imagination. He should have been doing his bounce boxing with Duran, but Marv thought he had to chew Duran up or it would not be macho enough, him being a natural middleweight only slightly past his prime while Duran had been a natural lightweight. He felt it would be perceived as cowardly by the public if he only boxed a strategic victory over Duran,

He was similarly affected by all the talk before the Leonard fight about how he could not outbox Leonard. I can't, huh? So for a bunch of wasted rounds, that is what he tried to do. Marv was vulnerable this way.

[The Old LefHook]

To figure out how Marv would fight Monzon, we merely have to figure out what the talk would have been.

Hmmm...

The part in the talk that would have rasped and rattled ol' Marv is when they said he couldn't stay on the outside and win the fight. How many rounds would he have wasted trying to show up that dirty, disrespectful opinion?

He does not need to try and outbox Monzon at all, but he is likely to try anyway. He needs to flat out brawl against Monzon, get inside and work. A trench fight. I believe that is his proper approach.

Monzon and his long arms would like him outside all night, if he is willing to stay there. And ol' Marv might just cooperate, so he can show the world how much game he got and what kind of a talent he is. Monzon would fight hard to keep him on the outside, in case he was not cooperative, which shows clearly what the general game plan had ought to be.

That is a bad, bad weakness to drag around against other ATGs. I do not trust Marv's mentality in the biggest fights. He is apt to get swayed and bumped off the right game plan by something someone said. Even Hearns got the fight he thought he wanted, he just couldn't handle it, because he fought the perfect game plan for Marv, instead of making Marv work to get at him.

He should have been doing his bounce boxing against Duran, keeping the little man outside where he did not want to be. But he felt popular perception was that it would be cowardly of him against little ol' Duran. He had to chew him up to be a real man and great champ.

Though Marv won about 8-4 even on Jesus Christ's scorecard, he allowed Duran to give perhaps his greatest performance in showing everything he had, everything he could take, everything he had learned. Instead of the perception of himself he wanted, Marv proved that he could not chew Duran up like a used up lightweight and spit him out in a brawl. When it got down to the truth of war on the inside, Duran was slicker, his medicine bag of know-how and tricks was much deeper and fuller.

Then the Goldberg effect kicked into high gear. That always happens when the man expected to get killed at least makes it competitive.

Fight the fight your opponent does not want out of you. That is pretty basic. But Marv had failures here, 'cause he got affected all the time by what he thought was the popular perception of things. He was vulnerable to his own imagination.