How much of an influence did Africa have on European culture, science, math, philoso?

[lightsout_finit]

Everytime I click this thread my blood pressure goes through the roof

A lot of salt in here

I think the only person you're trying to convince is yourself...

[Chollo Vista]

I think the only person you're trying to convince is yourself...

So you dispute facts?

I didn't make up not one fact in this thread. I started with the Genesis of African influences on Europe.. Starting with Egypt and also touching on the Moors.

I didn't even touch on the West African empires and how they provided a literal economic bailout plan for 14th and 15th century Europe

I'm not even talking about slave contributions that were stolen and deleted from history. Sure the US benefited from a HUGE upside financially, but I'm talking about the slave contributions that were literally stolen and deleted and passed off as 'mastas' accomplishment

And then if you want to talk about African and African American contributions to Europe and the world as we know it today, I can play that game as well and touch on that if you like

Anyone disputing these facts are either, dim witted, intellectually lazy, a white supremacist trying to ensure the status quo is locked in and these hidden secrets aren't revealed or just plain ******ed

Now which is it and which category do you fall in? Or can you dispute any of my work thus far

Disclaimer: spouting "We wuz kangs, doe" isn't an argument

[JimRaynor]

Let's not forget about Ancient Mali, Mansa Musa and the first University.

Timbuktu.

Early Europeans stole our legacy and wiped us out of His-story.

Forntuantely the truth is out there

[JimRaynor]

But they were:

Egyptian Hieroglyphs is the parent of the Proto-Sinaitic script, which is the parent of the Phoenician Alphabet, which is the parent of the GREEK SCRIPT, which is the parent of the Roman script

I don't know why you keep trying to trace everything back to Egypt as if there is a direct correlation to everything. If we are going to follow your logic then even Egypt didn't start the first system of writing, the Mesopotamians did.

Therefore with your reasoning since Egyptians originated from Mesopotamia and were influenced by Mesopotamians who started the first agriculture and the system of writing then we are actually writing in Mesopotamian!

It doesn't work that way. The founding fathers came over from Europe heavily influenced with European ideals, but out of those ideals they created something brand new and superior to what existed prior, America and the constitution. Same goes for Rome and Greece in regards to Egypt

I just explained to you how the Romans/Greeks/Athenians got everything they know from Egyptians; including their foundation.

No, what you did was connect some minimal examples in order to justify your conclusion. The Romans got everything from Egypt the same way Egypt got everything from Mesopotamia.

The Romans inherited many of their practices from Greece, not the other way around. Romans got it from the Greeks, including writing language. But who did the Greeks get it from?

By your reasoning the Greeks must've got it from Mesopotamians, since the Greeks learned it from the Phoenicans, and the Phoenicians from Egyptians, and Egyptians from Mesopotamians.

You have to remember, Rome/Greece was nothing more than a war torn environment incapable of properly producing philosophy. Why do you think they rejected it? This was foreign to them

Rome and Greece are the founding empires of Europe, because of them Europe became the dominant power in the world that is today. Their ideas on governance and democracy are practically adapted by every civilized country today. The Greeks and Romans had elections and ideas of democracy, while the Egyptians were still marrying brother and sister together to keep the throne line pure.

Umm, I think ruling the planet earth for thousands of years and providing the foundation to philosophy, Arts, sciences, culture, religion, etc has we know it, trumps the prior.

All of that rich historical culture, and today they dont even use their own alphabet that you claim they invented, their writing is Arabic, and their culture is dominated by Islam. They were forced to adopt the culture from the people who burned that precious library of Alexandria to the ground.

To keep the myth of white supremacy. This was a technique used during slavery to keep a people mentally enslaved in an attempt to delete/erase their history and contributions and Africa as a continent as we know it

It's worked for those that believe in it

You need to start coming to terms with reality. The Romans colonized and civilized Europe. Today we are typing in a Latin form of the alphabet, not Arabic, not Hieroglyphic, but what the Romans used. We are also typing in the English language not Egyptian.

[betmen]

is that all you got out of my posts?

So you don't think Africans have made any contributions to Europe and the world since Egypt in BC?

How old do you think this world is? USA has reigned supreme for what 100 years or so? Africa ruled the earth for several thousand years.

But is this really your stance and viewpoint?

Shall I educate you more?

Jesus Christ, you guys are worse than I thought

africa rule the world?? africa never rule the world, just like you wrote they only rule africa and at one time spain and part of middle east. you wrote like there are no other advance ancient civilization apart from europe and and africa at the same period of time.

at the other hand white man rule the world, they sail to every crevice of the world and colonized it. they made thousand years empire bend their knees.

[Chollo Vista]

I don't know why you keep trying to trace everything back to Egypt as if there is a direct correlation to everything

"How it happened that Egyptians came to the Peloponnese and what they did to make themselves kings in that part of Greece, has been chronicled by other writers: I will add nothing therefore, but proceed to mention some points which no one else has yet touched upon”

- Herodotos, Histories, VII

It is said that Pythagoras, a native of Samos, travelled frequently to Egypt for the purpose of his education. Like every aspirant, he had to secure the consent and favour of the Priests, and we are informed by Diogenes that a friendship existed between Polycrates of Samos and Amasis King of Egypt, that Polycrates gave Pythagoras letters of introduction to the King, who secured
for him an introduction to the Priests; first to the Priest of Heliopolis, then to the Priest of Memphis, and lastly to the Priests of Thebes, to each of whom Pythagoras gave a silver goblet.

If we are going to follow your logic then even Egypt didn't start the first system of writing, the Mesopotamians did.

We're having a nice conversation, please don't start lying. The Egyptians did not copy any details of this Sumerian invention but re- invented it from scratch for their different language, their different writing materials, and their different aesthetic and religious purposes.

Therefore with your reasoning since Egyptians originated from Mesopotamia and were influenced by Mesopotamians who started the first agriculture and the system of writing then we are actually writing in Mesopotamian!

Again, no need to lie here.

Same goes for Rome and Greece in regards to Egypt

And what do you think the Ancient Greeks had to say about the subject?

You realize, that if we pull up historical accounts from Greek philosphers and historians, they all point to Egypt as being the Genesis. Just as the 'Founding Fathers' of the US are the Genesis for what America is today, the Egyptians were to Greek.

You can't deny that and remove your George Washington's, Abraham Lincoln's, etc from US history because US technology has grown to something it wasn't when they were here 250 years ago.

No, what you did was connect some minimal examples in order to justify your conclusion. The Romans got everything from Egypt the same way Egypt got everything from Mesopotamia.

I'll lay it out for you again. Pure facts..

2000-1000 BC (Bronze Age) - Greeks had been living at a primitive level until the Egyptians came as well as Phoenicians and set up cities and civilized the Greeks, taught them new weapons, alphabet, etc…

1000-0 BC – Greeks studying in Egypt and brought back their learning to Greece... These are all documented facts. Not something Chollo Vista is making up

Egyptian civilization goes back to 3000 BC which is 2000 years older than Greek civilization. Use your brain man.

The Greeks were paying tribute to Queen Tiye and her husband… The relationship was of subordinate to superior. These are all facts at the tip of your fingertips, why try to hide it?

According to the Greeks themselves, the Egyptians were the founders of Philosophy. They were considered extraordinary astronomers. It takes 400 years to predict a solar eclipse like Thales who traveled to Egypt to get observations. You don’t do something like this off the top of your head; he was clearly using a sophisticated set of data from Egyptians... It's all documented

Philosophy from Egyptians – Invention of the soul and metapsychosis and notions of numbers and pure perpetual beings and metaphysics that you can trace back to Egyptian Mythology

Science – Greeks got Geometry and irrigation techniques from Egypt. Medicine came from Egypt… The architecture came from Egypt… We are also further informed through Herodotus, Jablonsk and Pliny, that after severe trials,
including circumcision, had been imposed upon him by the Egyptian Priests, he was finally initiated into all their secrets. That he learnt the doctrine of metempsychosis; of which there was no trace before in the Greek religion; that his knowledge of medicine and strict system of dietetic rules, distinguished him as a product of Egypt, where medicine had attained its highest perfection; and that his attainments in geometry corresponded with the ascertained fact that Egypt was the birth place of that Science


Architecture - The idea’s of the columns in architecture came from Egypt. They produced columns 2,000 years before the Greeks.

Rome and Greece are the founding empires of Europe, because of them Europe became the dominant power in the world that is today. Their ideas on governance and democracy are practically adapted by every civilized country today. The Greeks and Romans had elections and ideas of democracy, while the Egyptians were still marrying brother and sister together to keep the throne line pure.

The Greeks by the middle of the 18th century were being thought of as the childhood of Europe as a whole. Greece had to be a pure white country in order to fit the narrative of Africans being inferior and Europeans being superior.

Up until the 1820’s everyone was saying the Greeks were colonized and civilized by the Egyptians and Phoenicians. Then you have German and English scholars who started the attack of black production to the world which produced the scholarship and systematic racism. You had separate departments discovering their own theories which became institutionalized in the 1820’s to meet the racist narrative.

This is the only reason the Greeks are known to have civilized Europe because according to the Greeks themselves, they got their education and civilization from Egypt. Just ask Herodotus, Plato, Soccrates and Pythagoras

[Chollo Vista]

africa rule the world?? africa never rule the world, just like you wrote they only rule africa and at one time spain and part of middle east. you wrote like there are no other advance ancient civilization apart from europe and and africa at the same period of time.

at the other hand white man rule the world, they sail to every crevice of the world and colonized it. they made thousand years empire bend their knees.

[Chollo Vista]

They invented the modern day calendar. Their contributions are infinitely more to the world than Egypt.

And here's another lie. "The Egyptians created the world's first annual twelve-month calendar of 365 days". (p.5 of the African American Experience; Joe William Trotter)

Again, the calendar was created by the Egyptians and gradually built upon by the Greeks. Just like everything else in this thread we're discussing, which makes the bold so funny

[JimRaynor]

"How it happened that Egyptians came to the Peloponnese and what they did to make themselves kings in that part of Greece, has been chronicled by other writers: I will add nothing therefore, but proceed to mention some points which no one else has yet touched upon”

- Herodotos, Histories, VII

It is said that Pythagoras, a native of Samos, travelled frequently to Egypt for the purpose of his education. Like every aspirant, he had to secure the consent and favour of the Priests, and we are informed by Diogenes that a friendship existed between Polycrates of Samos and Amasis King of Egypt, that Polycrates gave Pythagoras letters of introduction to the King, who secured
for him an introduction to the Priests; first to the Priest of Heliopolis, then to the Priest of Memphis, and lastly to the Priests of Thebes, to each of whom Pythagoras gave a silver goblet.

There is no argument that philosophers and thinkers studied in Egypt. That isn't really the argument. The argument is that taken everything they learned they created something far superior then what existed in Egypt.

We're having a nice conversation, please don't start lying. The Egyptians did not copy any details of this Sumerian invention but re- invented it from scratch for their different language, their different writing materials, and their different aesthetic and religious purposes.

Oh I see the Eygptians "re invented" the system of writing, and the Phoenicians didn't? The Phoenician alphabet, the true inspiration for later the Latin alphabet looks nothing close to the Egyptian hieroglyphs, if anyone reinvented the system of writing it was them. Egyptians were not the first to invent a system of writing, the Mesopotamians were, in the form of cuneiform. I mean they don't even use what they so called invented today, instead they differed to the system of writing used by the Arabs.

You realize, that if we pull up historical accounts from Greek philosphers and historians, they all point to Egypt as being the Genesis. Just as the 'Founding Fathers' of the US are the Genesis for what America is today, the Egyptians were to Greek.

They learned certain things from Egypt, this is true, however they built on it and made it far superior to anything before it.

You can't deny that and remove your George Washington's, Abraham Lincoln's, etc from US history because US technology has grown to something it wasn't when they were here 250 years ago.

I have full appreciation for Egypt and their contributions. They were afterall the first to invent paper from papyrus, that alone is an invention that was timeless up until today.

I'll lay it out for you again. Pure facts..

2000-1000 BC (Bronze Age) - Greeks had been living at a primitive level until the Egyptians came as well as Phoenicians and set up cities and civilized the Greeks, taught them new weapons, alphabet, etc…

You can't civilize a nation unless you conquer said nation. The Egyptians never conquered Greece. Greeks learned certain things from Egyptians and then evolved beyond them.

1000-0 BC – Greeks studying in Egypt and brought back their learning to Greece... These are all documented facts. Not something Chollo Vista is making up

Egyptian civilization goes back to 3000 BC which is 2000 years older than Greek civilization. Use your brain man.

And the Mesopotamians are older than the Greeks, so what? Mesopotamians started Agriculture and kick started civilization as we know it. But I am not here attributing all of Egypts successes to Mesopotamia.

The Greeks were paying tribute to Queen Tiye and her husband… The relationship was of subordinate to superior. These are all facts at the tip of your fingertips, why try to hide it?

I call bull****, Greece didn't even exist when Queen Tiye reigned which was around 1300 BCE. The idea of Ancient Greece is recorded at 1200BCE.
The only time the relationship was that of subordinate to superior was when Alexander the Great conquered Egypt.

According to the Greeks themselves, the Egyptians were the founders of Philosophy. They were considered extraordinary astronomers. It takes 400 years to predict a solar eclipse like Thales who traveled to Egypt to get observations. You don’t do something like this off the top of your head; he was clearly using a sophisticated set of data from Egyptians... It's all documented

Philosophy the way it was to be known originated in Greece. Whatever the Greek thinkers studied an learned in Egypt it wasn't coined philosophy until they themselves did so.

Science – Greeks got Geometry and irrigation techniques from Egypt. Medicine came from Egypt… The architecture came from Egypt… We are also further informed through Herodotus, Jablonsk and Pliny, that after severe trials,
including circumcision, had been imposed upon him by the Egyptian Priests, he was finally initiated into all their secrets. That he learnt the doctrine of metempsychosis; of which there was no trace before in the Greek religion; that his knowledge of medicine and strict system of dietetic rules, distinguished him as a product of Egypt, where medicine had attained its highest perfection; and that his attainments in geometry corresponded with the ascertained fact that Egypt was the birth place of that Science

Architecture - The idea’s of the columns in architecture came from Egypt. They produced columns 2,000 years before the Greeks.

Yeah, Egypt for its time came up with a lot of new concepts and inventions. The Greeks and Romans took those concepts and in your own words reinvented them to be far superior in every way.

The Greeks by the middle of the 18th century were being thought of as the childhood of Europe as a whole. Greece had to be a pure white country in order to fit the narrative of Africans being inferior and Europeans being superior.

Africans were looked at as inferior by the 18th century not because of all the great things that Egypt or Carthage or any other ancient African empire accomplished. They were looked as inferior because they failed to keep up. They allowed themselves to be conquered and ruled, and completely overtaken. By the 18th century, virtually all of Africa was under European colonial rule.

Up until the 1820’s everyone was saying the Greeks were colonized and civilized by the Egyptians and Phoenicians. Then you have German and English scholars who started the attack of black production to the world which produced the scholarship and systematic racism. You had separate departments discovering their own theories which became institutionalized in the 1820’s to meet the racist narrative.

You can't colonize or civilize a territory unless you conquer it. Greece was never conquered by your aforementioned empires, the reverse happened, Greece conquered Egypt and Phoenicia. Many tried conquering Greece, and the only one that succeeded was Rome.

This is the only reason the Greeks are known to have civilized Europe because according to the Greeks themselves, they got their education and civilization from Egypt. Just ask Herodotus, Plato, Soccrates and Pythagoras

Herodotus, Plato, Socrates, and Pythagoras did not educate the whole of Greece, they were a hand full of man who lived at different times of one another and happened to travel to Egypt to learn the things that Egyptians learned. When they returned they had ideas of their own which were far superior than that of Egyptians. It's progress it happens, just like Egyptians built on the ideas of Mesopotamians.

And here's another lie. "The Egyptians created the world's first annual twelve-month calendar of 365 days". (p.5 of the African American Experience; Joe William Trotter)

Again, the calendar was created by the Egyptians and gradually built upon by the Greeks. Just like everything else in this thread we're discussing, which makes the bold so funny

Key word, "modern" day calendar is Gregorian, which is a Latin creation.

Egyptians also didn't invent the Calendar, the Mesopotamians did.

[Chollo Vista]

There is no argument that philosophers and thinkers studied in Egypt. That isn't really the argument. The argument is that taken everything they learned they created something far superior then what existed in Egypt.

Umm, actually that is the argument. Just as you said, everything the Greeks built or taught Europe, you tally the the Greeks. Don't worry, it's just not you, but this is Western education; which is false.

Oh I see the Eygptians "re invented" the system of writing, and the Phoenicians didn't? The Phoenician alphabet, the true inspiration for later the Latin alphabet looks nothing close to the Egyptian hieroglyphs, if anyone reinvented the system of writing it was them. Egyptians were not the first to invent a system of writing, the Mesopotamians were, in the form of cuneiform. I mean they don't even use what they so called invented today, instead they differed to the system of writing used by the Arabs.

I showed you the chart. Egyptian Hieroglyphs is the parent of the Phonician script. This is a fact, not me talking, but fact. The Mesopotamians had ZERO, I repeat, ZERO influence over the Egyptians. They traded together; that's about it. Nothing more to see there.

You keep talking about Arabs and how they conquered Egypt, but they didn't conquer Egypt until a few hundred years into AD. Egypt became the first organized nation in 3000 BC or so. You're talking about 3,000 years after the Egyptians had already made their mark on the world did the Arabs touch them. The Greek's didn't conquer Egypt until 332 BC, which is a little under 3000 years after Egypt made their mark.

Wanna know something else? Egypt was conquered by the Nubian's well before the Romans. Like 700 years before the Romans and over 300 years before the Greeks. And over 1000 years before the Muslims

There's really nothing to see here and is a moot point; pure deflection

They learned certain things from Egypt, this is true, however they built on it and made it far superior to anything before it.

Of course it's true. It's historical facts.

The Genesis of Greek philosophy/civilization as we know it came from Egypt. You don't need to conquer a people in order to civilize them. The fact that the Greek's recognize this, but the Western universities starting in the 1800's implemented scientific racism to hide this says all you need to know.

You've been lied too. We all have.

You can't civilize a nation unless you conquer said nation. The Egyptians never conquered Greece. Greeks learned certain things from Egyptians and then evolved beyond them.

This is not true. Not sure why you keep restating it.

And the Mesopotamians are older than the Greeks, so what? Mesopotamians started Agriculture and kick started civilization as we know it. But I am not here attributing all of Egypts successes to Mesopotamia.

I repeat. The Mesopotamians had ZERO, I repeat, ZERO influence over the Egyptians.

Egyptians had a great deal of influence over the Greeks. Just ask the Greeks.

I call bull****, Greece didn't even exist when Queen Tiye reigned which was around 1300 BCE. The idea of Ancient Greece is recorded at 1200BCE.
The only time the relationship was that of subordinate to superior was when Alexander the Great conquered Egypt

.


It's true.... They paid homage

Philosophy the way it was to be known originated in Greece. Whatever the Greek thinkers studied an learned in Egypt it wasn't coined philosophy until they themselves did so.

Once again not true. I lost count how many Greeks I've quoted saying their philosophy and education came from years of studying in Egypt

Come on man

Yeah, Egypt for its time came up with a lot of new concepts and inventions. The Greeks and Romans took those concepts and in your own words reinvented them to be far superior in every way.

How did the Greek teach something to Europe that's already been taught? Do you not see the problem/contradiction of that?

Africans were looked at as inferior by the 18th century not because of all the great things that Egypt or Carthage or any other ancient African empire accomplished. They were looked as inferior because they failed to keep up. They allowed themselves to be conquered and ruled, and completely overtaken. By the 18th century, virtually all of Africa was under European colonial rule

So that gives the 18th century European scholars the right to re-write history and erase their accomplishments so they can keep the mental status quo?

You can't colonize or civilize a territory unless you conquer it.

Where do you get this from? Is this Jim Raynor philosoply?

This is wrong on so many levels.

Ask yourself this question. What does it take to become a functioning civilized society? Once you answer this question, you'll realize that this was non-existent in Greece, let alone Europe until certain practices were introduced by Egyptians. These are facts man, not Chollo talking

Herodotus, Plato, Socrates, and Pythagoras did not educate the whole of Greece

They pretty much did. Socrates taught Plato who taught Aristotle who opened up a school which in turn was allowed to do research at the Library of Alexandria which got most of their information from guess where?

Pythagoras and many other philosophers including Thales all got their educational foundation from Egypt.

Ok, you say these guys read books. Well where did they get the books from? If they got books that predated 600BC, then who could've wrote these books with all this knowledge to teach these Greek Philosophers? There was no one in Greece that existed that was capable of doing such feat. It all came from Egypt.

They lied to you man

Egyptians also didn't invent the Calendar, the Mesopotamians did

Egyptians created the first 12 month 365 day calendar. Even gave you a source