Ray Robinson, Pacman, Ali Is Third-"Greatest Ever"Voting Over, Debate Begins

[pasawayako]

Top to bottom this is a great post. I agree 100%. Hes an ATG but Top 3? I mean lets get serious here. That voting just shows the lack of knowledge Pac fans have on boxing.

it's not just the pac fans that voted him it's the entire boxing fans that voted him.

[Kilrain]

Ray Robinson is the best ever. I'd say Floyd jr and Manny are definitely top 40 ever. I think there's a problem when people come to rate fighters, modern fighters, among the pantheon of greats from yesteryear. There's a tendency to inflate the older fighters to put them on a perch above current greats. Which I think is wrong. I mean, I heard one of **********'s writers saying Jack Dempsey would beat LENNOX LEWIS. Which was clearly ridiculous. I've saw footage of Dempsey, not a great deal, but enough to know that he was extremely crude. Lewis would have punished him, it would have been a massacre, even if Dempsey was bulked up to a current HW's stature...anyway, I digress.... like I said, I reckon Floyd jr and Manny are right up there. They could already be top 20.

[Schmerzen]

Which I think is wrong. I mean, I heard one of **********'s writers saying Jack Dempsey would beat LENNOX LEWIS. Which was clearly ridiculous. I've saw footage of Dempsey, not a great deal, but enough to know that he was extremely crude. Lewis would have punished him.

dempsey is one of the best hw punchers of all time, if mccall/rahman can send lennox to sleep, why not demspey ?
dempsey beat taller guys than lennox, it wouldnt shock me if lennox gets knocked out.
but lennox has definitive the better resume ...

[soyotoyapex]

MANNY IS P4P KING and fighter of the decade.

The boxing voices are all for PAC so who the hell can be against him?

[Schmerzen]

MANNY IS P4P KING and fighter of the decade.

The boxing voices are all for PAC so who the hell can be against him?

u have posted this once before (maybe twice), i know u like sucking mannys little ****, i dont want to bother u at work, but copy/paste = lame

[Kilrain]

dempsey is one of the best hw punchers of all time, if mccall/rahman can send lennox to sleep, why not demspey ?
dempsey beat taller guys than lennox, it wouldnt shock me if lennox gets knocked out.
but lennox has definitive the better resume ...

Like right there is what i'm talkin about.... I know he's always called 'one of the best punchers of all time'...but I'd say a more appropriate phrase would be 'the best puncher of his time'. It's not his time anymore. Decades have passed...modern training techniques, more athleticism, bigger, more powerful heavyweights... if you were to transpose him to the modern era, in terms of envisaging him fighting today with his skillset, he'd get mauled. I don't think he would be 'one of the best punchers of all time', he'd just be another fighter with a strong punch but nothing extraordinary. IMO. It's like, if you had a guy like David Tua, and you transposed him back into that era, the 10s, the 20s, scaled him down so he's around 190 lbs, he would have knocked folk the fuk out and he'd be hailed as one of the best punchers ever. You see what I'm saying? And his (Dempsey's) lack of defence/speed would get him killed. Particularly against a strong jabber with a bullet right hand like Lennox. Dempsey didn't have a jab. It's kind of hard discussing these things. Dempsey was what, like 180 lbs? So when you're speaking hypothetically, you could try and imagine what he'd be like at 210-20lbs ie as a modern HW. That'd mean he'd probably be even slower...Dempsey also held his head very high.

Carpentier, a lt-heavy, wobbled Dempsey... what dyou think Lennox would do to him? Put it in perspective. I know by the same token you could say, Rahman and McCall dropped Lewis, so could Jack....Rahman/McCall are real big guys, and Lewis was out-of-shape/unfocused when he fought both. Any1 can get caught, especially in the HW division, but...I'd say the chance of Dempsey putting down Lewis is very, very small

[Schmerzen]

Like right there is what i'm talkin about.... I know he's always called 'one of the best punchers of all time'...but I'd say a more appropriate phrase would be 'the best puncher of his time'. It's not his time anymore. Decades have passed...modern training techniques, more athleticism, bigger, more powerful heavyweights... if you were to transpose him to the modern era, in terms of envisaging him fighting today with his skillset, he'd get mauled. I don't think he would be 'one of the best punchers of all time', he'd just be another fighter with a strong punch but nothing extraordinary. IMO. It's like, if you had a guy like David Tua, and you transposed him back into that era, the 10s, the 20s, scaled him down so he's around 190 lbs, he would have knocked folk the fuk out and he'd be hailed as one of the best punchers ever. You see what I'm saying? And his (Dempsey's) lack of defence/speed would get him killed. Particularly against a strong jabber with a bullet right hand like Lennox. Dempsey didn't have a jab. It's kind of hard discussing these things. Dempsey was what, like 180 lbs? So when you're speaking hypothetically, you could try and imagine what he'd be like at 210-20lbs ie as a modern HW. That'd mean he'd probably be even slower...Dempsey also held his head very high.

Carpentier, a lt-heavy, wobbled Dempsey... what dyou think Lennox would do to him? Put it in perspective. I know by the same token you could say, Rahman and McCall dropped Lewis, so could Jack....Rahman/McCall are real big guys, and Lewis was out-of-shape/unfocused when he fought both. Any1 can get caught, especially in the HW division, but...I'd say the chance of Dempsey putting down Lewis is very, very small

i think u extremely underrate the big punchers from the past.
look at the technically limited cooper - at least compared to ali - landing the left on ali/clay in 63, u never know what happens in a fight.
its harder for a 250LBS lennox to get up after someone lands a punch like that on him.
i dont see lennox, who didnt score one single knockdown against a former cruiserweight, would beat the **** out of demspey like u do.
lennox was running from the 7" shorter david tua ffs.
he is without a doubt the best heavyweight from the 90s to early 2000, but his excuses why he got knocked out twice are ridiculous.
he didnt take it serious, he didnt train hard, both fighters were one hit wonders..
he was allways a sucker for the right hook, just like ali for the left hook.
but ali had a stronger chin, which helped him alot in his career, just watch the earnie shavers fight.
i still think dempsey would take out lennox at least in 1 out of 3 fights, soon or later he would land and hurt him.

[Kilrain]

Lennox mastered Tua, winning every round. Boxing is about hitting and not getting hit. He never ran, he just controlled Tua with his jab.

You're right, you never know what happens...but you can side with logic. Lewis's jab would be a huge problem for JD. Not to mention his physicality and his ability to tie up opponents. His right hand. Uppercut. Defence. I think it's easy for people to just say, 'Oh, Len got KO'd by McCall/Rahman, so-and-so would have a good chance to beat him'. Virtually any HW in history then would have a shot at KO'ing Lewis. You can always argue that point. You could use that argument to say: Mercer would KO LL; he didn't. Holyfield would KO him; he didn't. Tyson would KO him; he didn't. Tommy Morrison would KO him; he didn't. Tua would; he didn't. Golota would; he didn't. Tucker, Ruddock, Bruno... and remember Lewis, when focused, avenged those defeats in brutal fashion...

But I accept you're point, to a degree, you do never know what happens

LOL, not saying much though is it, Lewis's inability to drop a 'former cruiserweight'....that former cruiserweight also happens to be a 4-time heavyweight champion and one of the toughest SOBs in history. Tyson couldn't drop him either, Holyfield has withstood hard punchers his full career...

Ali did have a stronger chin, and better powers of recovery...damn, when he got up casually after getting dropped by Frazier in the 14th (?) round of their first fight. That was a home run punch by one of the best HW left-hookers and he got up instantly

[craigus1990]

wow that is shocking, imo its silly, i think its just because the filipino population is big so lots of people voted, if great britain was as big as the filipines you could garantee lennox would be in top 3 heavys etc...

[Schmerzen]

wow that is shocking, imo its silly, i think its just because the filipino population is big so lots of people voted, if great britain was as big as the filipines you could garantee lennox would be in top 3 heavys etc...

i bet with u that sugar ray robinson was not voted as the greatest, it was pac.
they just faked the results to make the poll more representative, or in other words they wanted the ppl in the boxingworld to take this poll more serious, i still dont