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Old 10-06-2018, 05:54 PM #61
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Originally Posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
Foreman was old and wayyyyy past his prime. He was able to do as well as he did as an old past prime fighter because of the very watered down talent pool at that time (to today). This plus he had multiple pathways to win the title so more potential opportunity and this be able to choose a path of least resistance. We are talking Baer in his prime at his best.
Foreman was old but had the benefit of experience and boxing IQ. That helped him set Moorer up for the right hand.

Baer's boxing IQ was never on that level. Prime or otherwise.

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:02 PM #62
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Benefit of a watered down hwt division and multiple champions.
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Old 10-08-2018, 02:54 AM #63
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Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
An extremely interesting matchup and an in depth op that gives food for thought.
As a Jew..
Baer...

You live where? White ppl warrior world.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:56 AM #64
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Moorer was easy to drag into a shootout. Bert Cooper nearly smoked him. Moorer would be right there for Baer to hit, as would Baer but I'm much more sold on Baer's chin than I am Moorer's. Baer KO 5.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:37 PM #65
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
find me one decent left handed sparring partner in 1935, please.

lots of you guys sound way out of touch, frankly. not a lot of descriptions of how you think the fight would go and why you think your pickwould win. jsut "oh if our maxie hit him he'd be dead, he would."
One could use a basic model of Schmelling to give some insight into Moore. Moore was faster and stronger and fought a little more on instinct than Schmelling... So we have a previous fight to give some precident.

Moore would be trying to land combos while baer would stalk him, perhaps try to use his reach to come over Moore's lead hand. Moore would try to keep Max inside his left. There would be some rough stuff inside occasionally, Moore fought well to the body and would do so here. Max just tries to unload past that forward hand. mixing up angles and using an ambush attack at certain points to confuse Moore. Thats about how I see it going new England.
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Edit

You make a great point about the southpaw angle.

Last edited by billeau2; 10-11-2018 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:38 PM #66
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Originally Posted by Mr.MojoRisin' View Post
Moorer was easy to drag into a shootout. Bert Cooper nearly smoked him. Moorer would be right there for Baer to hit, as would Baer but I'm much more sold on Baer's chin than I am Moorer's. Baer KO 5.
Cooper should have ended him. He had him. Poor Bert.
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:02 AM #67
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
do you know who the first ever southpaw HW champion was?

in the entire history of the division, mind you, it was michael moorer!


but yeah, not going to be anything new for max baer
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where as i assure you, a primitive, straigh tup and down and extremely wide right handed puncher who is tall is something moorer has seen a hell of a lot more! those guys are a dime a dozen. of course he "could" stop him. it's HW FFS! but he wouldn,t because he'd be getting his ass kicked by a much faster and not much smaller lefty who would be hitting him with shots he'd never have seen in the gym.

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some of the "moves" he makes are downright hysterical, and you see why when he fought a truly modern fighter with a precise attack, joe louis, he was destroyed.


some of you guys don't know what you're looking at, and that's perfectly fine. just watch how wide baer gets when he leads with power punches. he literally throws his right hand in a sweep from his pants pocket. it's amateurish and something you're trained not to do in your first weeks in teh gymnasium. don't tell me it's effective, because significant'y smaller man is landing counters with comical ease.


now wtach a technician out of kronk gym in detroit
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. looks different, no? a little primitive, perhaps?
Max Baer was a brawler with a huge punch in the mold of Wilder today. Yes he was wild, crude and easy to outbox, that is a given. But he was also dangerous every second of the fight due to his unorthodox style and power. Discounting Baer because Moorer was a southpaw and a decent boxer is crazy, going by old rules Moorer had to stay away from Baer, one of the biggest HW punchers ever (at least top 10), for 15 rounds. Moorer was always vulnerable at HW and was knocked down many times. Its not just a punchers chance because they are HWs, its a punchers chance because Baer is a great puncher and Moorer didnt take a punch well.

Bringing up the Joe Louis fight is comical. Louis was levels above Moorer in pretty much every way, most importantly Moorer did not have the power at HW to dismantle Baer like Louis was able to. Baers chin was only truly cracked once in his career, and that was by Louis.

Its not an easy fight to pick either way. Baer in his prime was vicious, explosive and dangerous, but prone to overconfidence and laziness. Moorer was a brilliant boxer and a sharp counterpuncher but vulnerable and prone to getting knocked down and out. Great matchup imo.
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:12 AM #68
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A lot depends here on the rules they used also. Moorer used an earmuff style defence that wasnt used in the old days for a reason. Old style gloves simple wouldnt provide much protection compared to the ones Moorer used, and they also allowed the puncher to pierce through much smaller gaps in your guard. Baer would be less effective using modern rules where he wouldnt be able to grapple or rough up his opponent so much.

15 rounds also would make a big difference, those 3 extra rounds give Baer, who carried his power, and confidence in his power, late into the fight, a lot more opportunity to land.
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:40 PM #69
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Max Baer was a brawler with a huge punch in the mold of Wilder today. Yes he was wild, crude and easy to outbox, that is a given. But he was also dangerous every second of the fight due to his unorthodox style and power. Discounting Baer because Moorer was a southpaw and a decent boxer is crazy, going by old rules Moorer had to stay away from Baer, one of the biggest HW punchers ever (at least top 10), for 15 rounds. Moorer was always vulnerable at HW and was knocked down many times. Its not just a punchers chance because they are HWs, its a punchers chance because Baer is a great puncher and Moorer didnt take a punch well.

Bringing up the Joe Louis fight is comical. Louis was levels above Moorer in pretty much every way, most importantly Moorer did not have the power at HW to dismantle Baer like Louis was able to. Baers chin was only truly cracked once in his career, and that was by Louis.

Its not an easy fight to pick either way. Baer in his prime was vicious, explosive and dangerous, but prone to overconfidence and laziness. Moorer was a brilliant boxer and a sharp counterpuncher but vulnerable and prone to getting knocked down and out. Great matchup imo.


dude if you think those two are in the same atmosphere with punhing power you are out of your mind. do you really think baer hits as hard?

deontay wilder and max baer?
the f#ck are you even talking about!

louis was a better overall fighter than moorer for a number of reasons, but moorer benefitted from 40-50 years of schooling and knowledge, high quality tapes to look at, etc, that edified the kind of precision you'd get coming out of the kronk gym. believe me whan i say that it wasn't developed idly, and that precision and super calculated delivery of power like mclellan, hearns, moorer, would be completely new to baer. it's just a fact that baer was incredibly crude when compared to both louis and moorer, hearns.

FFs did you watch the fight that keeps getting posted? dude literally flaills with his back hand like a kid. do i need to point out where this happens, and why you don't take serioulsy a guy who is so unschooled that in a moment of excitement or duress his instinct is to flail with the back of his glove? he swings his right hand from his pocket and you're taught not to do that as a 6-8 year old today! the fact is that he wouldn't have those kinds of instincts if he was really a modern boxer and not incredibly crude. and a sharpshooter like moorer who is also left handed and could bang very hard would have no problem at all connecting at any point in the fight.

baer would have a hard time landing a punch. believe me, you can find crude HW who can punch in any era. you coldn't find a southpaw like moorer until lefties stepped off of the pitching mound.

where does he win the fight? inside flailing away like that? just trust me when i say that moorer uses the ring well enough that that is not going to happen without a huge price getting paid! and when they got close i'd expect moorer to be just fine physically, max baer was big in 1935 but not today! he'd be a small HW and his advantages would be hysterically mute. i played hockey with bigger dudes! you'll see bigger framed dudes at a planet fitness
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.

so again, what does he do, exactly? punch as hard as wilder
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? you're nuts!
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Old 10-17-2018, 12:47 PM #70
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Originally Posted by Tom Cruise View Post
A lot depends here on the rules they used also. Moorer used an earmuff style defence that wasnt used in the old days for a reason. Old style gloves simple wouldnt provide much protection compared to the ones Moorer used, and they also allowed the puncher to pierce through much smaller gaps in your guard. Baer would be less effective using modern rules where he wouldnt be able to grapple or rough up his opponent so much.

15 rounds also would make a big difference, those 3 extra rounds give Baer, who carried his power, and confidence in his power, late into the fight, a lot more opportunity to land.

he'd make baer look like an amatuer with his feet and angles. his guard
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dude was missing fighters in 1935 by a foot and a half. michael moorer was trained by emanuel steward, georgie benton, guys who were able to look back at a fighter like baer and say, "don't do that."

ever noticed how few fighters flail around with the backs of their hands today? "don't do that, mike," georgie benton would say!


gloves are a fine point, but again, kind of gimmicky to say, well, the fight's gotta go abck to 1935 in a dimly lit room, filled with cigar smoke, 6 oz horsehair gloves that fall apart with you punch stuff, baer's allowed to put his thumb in mike's butt or eye, etc.

put them in a 20 foot ring, 8 or 10 oz, modern puncher's gloves [believe me, they still f#cking hurt and have a hysterically low amount of padding over the knuckles for a 215 lb man who has trained for years,] and a ref from let's say 1960 and on.

hell, put the fight in 70's HW conditions. that's right in the middle of the two careers, more or less.
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