The Penalty For Being Too Good (Rigondeaux, Golovkin, Ward)

[kiaba360]

So when is enough enough? Golovkin turns 34 in a month, and Rigo is probably 43.

Do you sit in the same division, hoping and praying that you get the big fight only to not get it for another 4-5 years? Or do you say OK, I'm going to start considering fighters in other weight classes to stay active, stay in the limelight and build my resume?

Canelo clearly feels he isn't ready for GGG. Why not shove it up the divas ass and come down a couple pounds to make it happen? Why let him string you out until your prime years are beaten out of you?

I would prefer GGG trying out 168 rather than a Caneloweight fight. My only concern: who at 168 is available and/or willing? I think GGG making his SMW and UK debut against Groves would be decent, but that's the only guy I can think of. If that does well, that may entice Eubank and Callum Smith to at least entertain the match-up.

[-PBP-]

i would say rigo and ggg are opposites to ward.

ward had everything setup in his favor: being america, fighting on network tv from an early stage, having the super six setup in his favor, and he completely squandered it by turning down many great fights that ggg/rigo would kill for. he literally could have fought anyone at anytime at either 160/168 and he simply did not want to. he tried to fight gus like sartison/periban over and over. rigo/ggg on the other hand have tried to fight everyone in their division and even attempted to make fights outside their division if they had to.

They are more alike than you think. They just go about their business differently. Ward should have moved up to 175 as soon as he won the Super 6. He should have realized that there was no one left to fight and it would have been a perfect opportunity to knock off Chad Dawson and establish himself as the man in the new division. Instead, he gambled and stayed at 168 in hopes of landing Golovkin or Chavez Jr. in a PPV bout and it backfired.

When you are not a big money generator like Ward, the competition doesn't come to you. You have to go out of your way and get it. Which is basically the premise of this thread.

[daggum]

so ggg ducks ward when ward turns down the fight/then gives him a silly offer. would floyd be ducking spinks if spinks offered him a 50-50 split for a fight after floyd fights hoya....hmmm yea think about that for a sec. but ward didn't duck a guy like bute by turning down a career high pay day? you have the same exact people saying ggg ducked ward that are saying ward didn't duck bute. this is why they can't/won't be taken seriously.

ggg ducked ward because he pursued canelo and turned down stupid offer from ward yet ward turns down great offer from ward and he didn't duck?

[The Big Dunn]

right....and ward wasn't reluctant when he turned the fight down a couple years ago? he wasn't reluctant when he wanted a 50-50 split for a fight that would happen in 15 months? oh yea and this fight would have happened after a proposed ggg-canelo matchup yet 50-50? come on. thats reluctance personified. that's a publicity stunt. ward steered himself away by not accepting teh fight and making silly unrealistic demands. blame ward. the guy who didn't want to fight anyone the last 4 years.

ward had a contract dispute that he was trying to work out. we have video evidence of HBO steering Ward away from GGG. if you choose to ignore it, ok.

there is a certain group of fighters you will always blame for fights not happening when the guys you like-Manny , GGG, Kov and their teams- avoid certain fights.

When they turn a deal down, you blame it on the deal. If someone turns a deal down to fight them, you say that guy is a coward.

[-PBP-]

so ggg ducks ward when ward turns down the fight/then gives him a silly offer. would floyd be ducking spinks if spinks offered him a 50-50 split for a fight after floyd fights hoya....hmmm yea think about that for a sec. but ward didn't duck a guy like bute by turning down a career high pay day? you have the same exact people saying ggg ducked ward that are saying ward didn't duck bute. this is why they can't/won't be taken seriously.

ggg ducked ward because he pursued canelo and turned down stupid offer from ward yet ward turns down great offer from ward and he didn't duck?

GGG didn't duck Ward. He had an opportunity to knock off a top fighter in a bigger division and he passed on it because he took the gamble on the Canelo fight.

Ward did the same thing. He passed on 175 for many years hoping to land Chavez Jr., GGG or a Froch rematch but his gamble didn't pay off. At least he's moved up now and we'll see where he goes from here.

[daggum]

They are more alike than you think. They just go about their business differently. Ward should have moved up to 175 as soon as he won the Super 6. He should have realized that there was no one left to fight and it would have been a perfect opportunity to knock off Chad Dawson and establish himself as the man in the new division. Instead, he gambled and stayed at 168 in hopes of landing Golovkin or Chavez Jr. in a PPV bout and it backfired.

When you are not a big money generator like Ward, the competition doesn't come to you. You have to go out of your way and get it. Which is basically the premise of this thread.

ward had some really big fights at 168. stevenson, bute, and froch 2. there was no need to move up he simply didn't want to fight the guys in his division. that is the opposite of what is happening to ggg. the guys in ggg's division simply don't want to fight him so yes moving up was an option but then again in the past froch/ward both turned him down. so he put himself in a position to fight cotto/canelo and unfortunately it seems like they are goign to get around ggg's move to fight them. seems like people are mad at ggg because ggg should have planned for people to duck him and prematurely moved up? seems like a strange way to hate someone but ok sure.

[-PBP-]

I would prefer GGG trying out 168 rather than a Caneloweight fight. My only concern: who at 168 is available and/or willing? I think GGG making his SMW and UK debut against Groves would be decent, but that's the only guy I can think of. If that does well, that may entice Eubank and Callum Smith to at least entertain the match-up.

I think he needs to see if he can talk him up to 157/158. If they can't meet in the middle he has a decision to make. Is it worth the wait, or does he need to move on?

The money a Canelo fight brings to the table may make it worth the wait. But by waiting he's pretty much hedging his entire career on one fight. This can backfire if he or Canelo loses (Canelo has had some close calls so it's not out of the question).

[j0zef]

Oh gawd. I knew a Golovkin fan would come running in here *****ing and moaning; slamming Rigo and Ward and defending Golovkin. But luckily I was prepared to combat the fanboyism because I am a fireman and the flames don't intimidate me, I control the flames.

As mentioned, Ward simply ran out of people to fight at 168. After all the smoke cleared, Carl Froch re-emerged as the top contender to Ward's reign in that division and the fight didn't happen. In hindsight, we know Froch likes to blow smoke and just says **** for the hell of it (see him trolling the fans with GGG) and Eddie Hearn is on record saying Ward is boring and they have no interest. With Ward's inactivity, his belts scattered all over the place and he had no fights left at 168. He tried to make a last ditch effort to fight GGG but it didn't happen. Clearly, he would have preferred to stay at '68 a little longer but there were no fights.

Now let's talk Rigo. As far as public profile, his public profile was at a peak when he beat Donaire. However, that was also a curse because it sent a message to everybody else that he was the real deal. In order to raise your public profile, you need a promoter and a network to back you; especially after getting the biggest win of your career. However, immediately after the fight, Arum and HBO went into full damage control mode (Donaire hurt his shoulder (sound familiar?), Donaire trained over the phone, Donaire just had a baby, Donaire was tired from his fighter of the year campaign, etc. etc. etc.) Rigo is a fighter, not a promoter.

As far as Golovkin, he doesn't have to move up now, he's got Canelo right where he wants him. But he will need to make concessions to make that fight happen before he loses his prime years. Let's wait and see what happens.

I'm sorry am I missing something? Are you incapable of having a conversation without throwing personal insults?

Nothing you said about Ward disagrees with what I said. He did run out of people to fight (as I said, outside of Haymon's DeGale), and the only way he could make decent money is for signing with HBO, which knows that the only way to justify paying him $2M/fight is to stage a megafight with Kovalev.

What exactly do you have a problem with?


As for Rigo, I absolutely disagree with you. The reason that Golovkin is a 34 year old who still has a 'trash resume' and is chasing a big fight is because he dealt with promotional issues in his prime years. Universum screwed him big time. Do you see him b1tching and moaning how he's a fighter and not a promoter? How the world is not fair?
No, he won a lawsuit against his promoter and left them. He packed his bags and moved to the United States. He's been training year around, traveling the world to establish his name, and fighting the best fighters that agree to fight him.

If it was true that Rigo's problems are caused by his promoters, he should have changed promoters. End of story. But that's not even true. Here's an article that talks about Rigo's issues:

"Rigo has to take some of the blame for destroying his own career," he said. "He has refused many multi-million dollar opportunities I offered to him over the last couple of years. He needs to get rid of these reptiles and get fighting again because not only will he lose his world titles outside of the ring he will also be forgotten."

So again, besides me being a GGG fan, what exactly do you have a problem with?

[The Big Dunn]

so ggg ducks ward when ward turns down the fight/then gives him a silly offer. would floyd be ducking spinks if spinks offered him a 50-50 split for a fight after floyd fights hoya....hmmm yea think about that for a sec. but ward didn't duck a guy like bute by turning down a career high pay day? you have the same exact people saying ggg ducked ward that are saying ward didn't duck bute. this is why they can't/won't be taken seriously.

ggg ducked ward because he pursued canelo and turned down stupid offer from ward yet ward turns down great offer from ward and he didn't duck?

GGG avoided Ward because he is taller, bigger, is highly skilled, and would likely beat him because GGG has never fought someone as good as Ward. Without an undefeated record, casual fans will not buy into HBO's marketing of him as "the most avoided monster" in the sport and almost surely reduces the amount of money to be made in the Canelo/GGG PPV.

It's really simple. Bringing up ward/bute and Floyd/spinks is just deflection.

[daggum]

GGG didn't duck Ward. He had an opportunity to knock off a top fighter in a bigger division and he passed on it because he took the gamble on the Canelo fight.

Ward did the same thing. He passed on 175 for many years hoping to land Chavez Jr., GGG or a Froch rematch but his gamble didn't pay off. At least he's moved up now and we'll see where he goes from here.

ggg and froch 2 fights were offered to him and he said no. by the time ggg became wbc mandatory it was obvious ggg was no longer moving up(at least for a ward fight since its not a huge fight) and he also said he was staying at 160 so if he was waiting that was dumb.

was he waiting for chavez jr? hmmm maybe yet if we look at ward's actions i think we can find out what he was doing. he wanted easy fights for big money. look at the guys he was trying to fight. periban, saritson, truax etc...he thought he would be able to milk his status and unfortunately for him it didn't work. that is not what ggg is doing so comparing them is silly.