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Old 04-26-2017, 01:29 PM #11
g27region g27region is online now
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There's no so called "eastern euro" invasion, it's a myth, Soviet school of boxing always been great, all these fighters weren't allowed to participate in Soviet times, and after USSR collapsed 90's was too messed up and foul, it was hard to make it for a lot of people here, now all these fighters from ex-Soviet bloc turning pros to become the important part of the game, just like Mexicans or Americans. They're going to stay in this sport. But I definitely don't see their presence in MMA, small Dagestan republic with only 3 millions of population can't produce waves of Sambo fighters for an entire nation to become relevant in mixed martial arts

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:43 PM #12
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I think it has to do more with age. Most if not all Euro fighters keep fighting in the amateurs till their mid 20s. They turned pro pretty much at their peek as where a lot of a lot of other fighters coming from the Latin countries and the USA turn pro as early as 15 years old. They don't have all the amateur background to gain experience and pretty much are learning on the job as a pro. Fighters like Floyd, Shane, Oscar and Roy Jones and Ward to name a few, would have been able to do the same as Loma if they stuck around in the amateurs till their mid 20s. Is it more impressive to win a title in your 3rd fight at the age of 26 with years of amateur experience or to win a title at 20 years old before you hit your prime?
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:59 PM #13
Eff Pandas Eff Pandas is offline
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Originally Posted by g27region View Post
There's no so called "eastern euro" invasion, it's a myth
If there weren't that many Eastern Euro guys at one point not that long ago & there is a bunch now there is clearly an "invasion". Idk about its a myth. Whatcha mean Beterbiev & Lipinets are actually Canadian lol?

I mean I'm not saying the top ten of every division is gonna be unpronounceable any day now, but for sure fighters from this region are making a nice impact specifically in boxing as of late. And based on all the guys from this region of the globe that I still see on the come up still Eastern Euro guys are gonna be competing at a at a higher scale at a higher level of the pro boxing game then they ever have.

Invasion doesn't mean taking over, running the sport or whatever you think I'm suggesting here I guess might be the miscommunication here if there is one.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:01 PM #14
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largely to do with the context of this sports entertainment business....

what tangible thing is rank based on? and therefore contention to even fight for a title based on?
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:07 PM #15
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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
If there weren't that many Eastern Euro guys at one point not that long ago & there is a bunch now there is clearly an "invasion". Idk about its a myth. Whatcha mean Beterbiev & Lipinets are actually Canadian lol?

I mean I'm not saying the top ten of every division is gonna be unpronounceable any day now, but for sure fighters from this region are making a nice impact specifically in boxing as of late. And based on all the guys from this region of the globe that I still see on the come up still Eastern Euro guys are gonna be competing at a at a higher scale at a higher level of the pro boxing game then they ever have.

Invasion doesn't mean taking over, running the sport or whatever you think I'm suggesting here I guess might be the miscommunication here if there is one.
I mean, they weren't able to compete at this level before because of certain circumstances - political (like in Soviet times) or social ones (90's). But the fact that they're becoming more relevant in pro boxing at THIS period of time is logical, it's not something that came out of nowhere - it's a product of Soviet school of boxing - that's why I never use the term "eastern europeans", fighters from Central Asia are the product of the same Soviet school, but some polish fighters from eastern europe are different compared to all these guys.

Damn, I might lose my temper if I see some boxing fan calling some fighter from Siberia "eastern european" (like Provodnikov), considering that I'm Russian and I live in Asia, next to border with China, I just don't feel any relation to EE, I feel more Asian influence here

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Old 04-26-2017, 02:12 PM #16
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Of the guys mentioned I think only ODLH & Reid were legit fast tracked doe. I know Reid was a title holder within 13ish or less fights iirc. And ODLH had a bit of a manufactured run early on, not that it wasn't impressive, just that they had him as a two division (WBO iirc) title holder before he fought a live body, but yea I recall him being a player in his division(s) quickly out of the gate.

So I mean sure the amateur & Olympic level guys have always been the better bets to make in that transition from pro debut to champion/title holder, but they typically still haven't been as many of those types of guys around or I'm forgetting a lot of mfers, one or the other. Feel free to name all the 15 fight or less guys who were top ten guys in any particular era like I did above if you can recall them cuz I'd be legit curious about seeing what was happening in that era too.
I'm with on how fast they are moving up. Part of that is that fighter's aren't fighting as often any more, so the are trying to push them up fast and get them one of the many belts. Back before all of the alphabet titles when there was one champion per division, you really had to work your way up to a title shot. It was rare to see a fighter with less than 30 fights getting a shot at a title.

Today, a guy looks impressive in one fight and the media has him tagged as the next big thing. On the flip side, a good fighter can lose just one fight and suddenly the air goes out of the balloon and no is talking about him anymore. That's what happened to Gamboa. Then you have guys like Urango who are exposed early on after a bit of media and fan hype.

Out of the Eastern-Euro crop of fighters who are being hyped, I'm only interested in Loma and Gvodzyk. I was never really sold on GGG or Kovalev but I do enjoy watching their fights, I just don't see anything special when I watch them. I think Usyk is being hyped too soon and I don't see anything that sets him apart other than his size.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:48 PM #17
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So what are you saying exactly? Those Eastern Euro guys, who are the main guys being fast tracked, are in a more amateur-centric region of the world so not unlike the Cubans in that high level amateur making machine they have in Cuba the tip top guys are on a whole other level when turning pro vs the lesser competitive regions of the world currently or in the past?
Eastern Euro bums are generally take into boxing at a very young age & they train them for Olympics &/or WSB from the get go.. Up until the recent times, most of these guys were promoted by European promoters & never left the shore or at best went & fought in Germany.. It is a new thing that guys like klimus & K2 are doing by getting the guys into US so that they become well known among fans & also speed up in title shots..

Cuba is a different animal altogether.. They have one of the best amateur programs but they do not have professional boxing scope.. As a result a lot of them stay amateurs for a long time.. or end up with bad/mediocre promoters who can get them only journeymen type of fights..

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Are there any hard or guessimate figures on how many amateur boxers are in different countries? Question for anyone.
I don't know guvnor but surely will be an interesting stat to find..
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:35 PM #18
Eff Pandas Eff Pandas is offline
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I'm with on how fast they are moving up. Part of that is that fighter's aren't fighting as often any more, so the are trying to push them up fast and get them one of the many belts. Back before all of the alphabet titles when there was one champion per division, you really had to work your way up to a title shot. It was rare to see a fighter with less than 30 fights getting a shot at a title.
Sure, but its not like 4 belts are new. We've had this silly 4 belt system since the late 80's. We are about 30 years into this reality.

The fast upward rise due to less activity might be relevant, but idk if guys are really fighting THAT much less. Well I should qualify that & say guys on the way up don't seem to be fighting THAT much less. I definitely feel like the guys with belts & notable guys are less active.

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Today, a guy looks impressive in one fight and the media has him tagged as the next big thing. On the flip side, a good fighter can lose just one fight and suddenly the air goes out of the balloon and no is talking about him anymore. That's what happened to Gamboa.
LOL yea everything is so & so is the best fighter ever or so & so needs to retire. There are so many fans that have no middle ground with guys. I for one just try to ignore those types of fans as much as possible cuz that's obviously some extreme casual fan type stuff.

On Gamboa specifically doe I don't think he suffered from those types of opinions so much as his own personal promoter seven circles of hell chaos that left him out of sight out of the ring for far too many periods of time. I think Ward & Mikey suffered from that to & they didn't even lose a fight.

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Out of the Eastern-Euro crop of fighters who are being hyped, I'm only interested in Loma and Gvodzyk. I was never really sold on GGG or Kovalev but I do enjoy watching their fights, I just don't see anything special when I watch them. I think Usyk is being hyped too soon and I don't see anything that sets him apart other than his size.
Eh, I mean regardless of who ends up being "special" there are a bunch of inexperienced, in pro fights, guys, largely from that Eastern Euro region, who are making big moves.

And buy into Uysk or not, how many cats have done what he's done so quick? He went from pro debut to consensus #1 guy in his division in 3 years. Most promising amateurs aren't even ranked in the top 10 in 3 years by an abc group let alone be indie ranked #1. Whatever Uysk does from here out he's a talented mfer. And I think its kinda silly that people aren't super up on him or don't think a guy who gets to that point so quick won't run into some problems &/or have growing pains vs look perfect each & every time he fights.

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Eastern Euro bums are generally take into boxing at a very young age & they train them for Olympics &/or WSB from the get go.. Up until the recent times, most of these guys were promoted by European promoters & never left the shore or at best went & fought in Germany.. It is a new thing that guys like klimus & K2 are doing by getting the guys into US so that they become well known among fans & also speed up in title shots..
So you're saying the older Eastern Euro guys kinda sucked or these newer Eastern Euro guys are that much more bada$$?

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Cuba is a different animal altogether.. They have one of the best amateur programs but they do not have professional boxing scope.. As a result a lot of them stay amateurs for a long time.. or end up with bad/mediocre promoters who can get them only journeymen type of fights..
I was just thinking outloud with that stuff. I was just using Cuba as a example of a system that builds top amateurs & wondering if that Eastern Euro region has a similar type system, officially or unofficially, with building top amateurs with favorable pro styles due to some high level trainers or just sheer numbers. I'm a Cuba amateur system fanboy so I know what that's all about more or less.

Or I wonder if that AIBA WSB has had a positive impact on amateurs who turn pro as I've long considered those "semi-pro" fights & those fights are definitely 3rd or 4th year in the pros caliber fights if they didn't take place in the WSB a lot of the time. So that caliber of "semi-pro" experience has to make you transition to the pros better. Although off hand I don't know how many of the guys above had fought in the WSB so that may or may not be a viable trend with these highly considered cats with minimal pro experience.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:45 PM #19
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I agree. The whole wasteland of 20-30 set up fights against bums before finally stepping it up was a joke. I'd rather see a guy with a few losses than a guy who has been protected.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:50 PM #20
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If you notice the trend in your post, all the names are Eastern Euros. It just means that they're the new flavor of the month and people love hopping on bandwagons.
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