The "What if" thread.....

[slicksouthpaw16]

I like to think that about Mike and Cus but i dunno man, Tyson was wild...

I agree on Jones he could pick and choose opponents at HW who he could beat ie Byrd but a guy like Lewis would squash him


TS

Duran would have been higher yes, he was one of the best who ever did it even with those flaws. His record would have been better and the No Mas for many REALLY hurts him so if that were gone it would be a big plus for him


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WHAT IF - Ali never came back after he was banned?

Oh i definitely agree on Tyson. He was wild and by no means am i suggesting that it would have been some dramatic difference, i just think Cus could have somewhat minimized the damage that Tyson did in the long run. He was a father figure, and someone that Tyson actually listened to.

[GJC]

I consider Johnson a Top 5 ATG Light Heavyweight regardless.

I'm a big Johnson fan but think you might just be overshooting with top 5 Dan!
It's like saying Joe Baksi isn't a top 10 ATG HW

[IronDanHamza]

I'm a big Johnson fan but think you might just be overshooting with top 5 Dan!
It's like saying Joe Baksi isn't a top 10 ATG HW

I'm not so sure my friend!

If Archie Moore wasn't around then Johnson would definitely be a Top 5 ATG LHW.

But even then, I mean, Johnson has a pretty vast body of work with a lengthy list of solid wins.

That's aside HOF'ers such as Moore, Charles, Bivins and Pastrano (He beat Pastrano clearly)

Yes, ok, the Charles and Bivins fights were above LHW (Just about!!) but in both situations you have very small 'Heavyweights' almost fighitng at LHW. Almost

Not many at LHW with a better resume than that IMO.

I have him at #5 and he is staying there

Either way I think it's definitely a debatable subject.

[GJC]

Would give you a good hearing on top 10.
Moore,Charles,Tunney,Foster, Loughran,Spinks,Conn and even Greb although he doesn't always get his dues at LHW are some big names to move aside?
But I greatly look forward to hearing your case my friend I'm sure it will make me have some doubts.

[IronDanHamza]

Would give you a good hearing on top 10.
Moore,Charles,Tunney,Foster, Loughran,Spinks,Conn and even Greb although he doesn't always get his dues at LHW are some big names to move aside?
But I greatly look forward to hearing your case my friend I'm sure it will make me have some doubts.

I don't rank Greb at LHW because I feel he was obviously better at MW and that's just where I rank him.

I would rank him higher than Johnson if I did rank him there.

I have Johnson behind;

1. Charles
2. Moore
3. Tunney
4. Spinks

Me personally, I can't see how Billy Conn and Bob Foster are greater than Harold Johnson at LHW. I mean, they are ATG's, no question about that, but I don't think they have the depth or quality that Harold Johnson has. I just can't see it.

I think obviously there's a solid argument for Rosenbloom and Loughran to be greater than him at LHW. But for me, he's very argubale to be above those 2 at LHW.

Loughran has Greb which is just so stand out along with alot of exceptional wins, but Johnson has Moore and Charles. The only LHW to have the #1 and #2 LHW's on his resume.

And Rosenbloom's resume is unreal, truley unreal. But I really think Johnson has an argument to be above him. That's 50/50 for me (maybe, maybe I ranked him just about higher because I'm a little bit fond of him )

[GJC]

I don't rank Greb at LHW because I feel he was obviously better at MW and that's just where I rank him.

I would rank him higher than Johnson if I did rank him there.

I have Johnson behind;

1. Charles
2. Moore
3. Tunney
4. Spinks

Me personally, I can't see how Billy Conn and Bob Foster are greater than Harold Johnson at LHW. I mean, they are ATG's, no question about that, but I don't think they have the depth or quality that Harold Johnson has. I just can't see it.

I think obviously there's a solid argument for Rosenbloom and Loughran to be greater than him at LHW. But for me, he's very argubale to be above those 2 at LHW.

Loughran has Greb which is just so stand out along with alot of exceptional wins, but Johnson has Moore and Charles. The only LHW to have the #1 and #2 LHW's on his resume.

And Rosenbloom's resume is unreal, truley unreal. But I really think Johnson has an argument to be above him. That's 50/50 for me (maybe, maybe I ranked him just about higher because I'm a little bit fond of him )

Thought you'd put up a good fight Dan
Bivins needs a mention too I know Johnson beat him but post war Bivins wasn't the force he'd been.
Johnson really suffers from Moore being around had he had a clear run I could see him racking 10 years up as LHW champ.
Notice you fallen a bit into Greb LHW blindness
Amazes me that people such as IBRO don't even have him top 12 at light heavy, resume wise he has a good shout at number 1 IMO
Think Foster would spark Harold though!

[IronDanHamza]

Thought you'd put up a good fight Dan
Bivins needs a mention too I know Johnson beat him but post war Bivins wasn't the force he'd been.
Johnson really suffers from Moore being around had he had a clear run I could see him racking 10 years up as LHW champ.
Notice you fallen a bit into Greb LHW blindness
Amazes me that people such as IBRO don't even have him top 12 at light heavy, resume wise he has a good shout at number 1 IMO
Think Foster would spark Harold though!

Bivins is a great fighter, I'm fond of Jimmy.

I agree that Johnson didn't beat a prime Bivins but he beat a game one! That itself speaks volumes.

Man, that Archie Moore! No but I love Archie. How couldn't you?

I know he had Harold's number but don't you feel that they really brought the best out of each other? Especially that 5th fight. What a close one that was! Johnson was putting a real beating on Archie before the great man turned it around.

Without Moore there Johnson could have been even greater. But to be honest, I still think Johnson did so much in his career. If you look into depth into his resume he beat such a vast number of top ranke fighters, HOF'ers and even ATG's.

Oh I'm not in the blindness of Harry Greb LHW Greatness my man. Trust me, I'm one of the few. His resume there speaks for itself.

I solely don't rank him there because I rank him at MW instead.

No arguments from me with the Bob Foster argument. I think Foster stops Johnson too. Maybe early. But my personal rankings have head to head match ups being a very very distant second. So that doesn't effect my ranking. And I find it hard to argue that Foster's resume is better than Johnson's.

So where do you rank Johnson? As you know I have him at #5. And I understand that there is obviously an argument for him to be lower with the likes of Greb (on your list), Loughran an Rosenbloom fighting for their places.

But he HAS to be Top 10. Doesn't he?

[ghns1133]

NEXT

what if hagler had fought leonard in there primes

[GJC]

Bivins is a great fighter, I'm fond of Jimmy.

I agree that Johnson didn't beat a prime Bivins but he beat a game one! That itself speaks volumes.

Man, that Archie Moore! No but I love Archie. How couldn't you?

I know he had Harold's number but don't you feel that they really brought the best out of each other? Especially that 5th fight. What a close one that was! Johnson was putting a real beating on Archie before the great man turned it around.

Without Moore there Johnson could have been even greater. But to be honest, I still think Johnson did so much in his career. If you look into depth into his resume he beat such a vast number of top ranke fighters, HOF'ers and even ATG's.

Oh I'm not in the blindness of Harry Greb LHW Greatness my man. Trust me, I'm one of the few. His resume there speaks for itself.

I solely don't rank him there because I rank him at MW instead.

No arguments from me with the Bob Foster argument. I think Foster stops Johnson too. Maybe early. But my personal rankings have head to head match ups being a very very distant second. So that doesn't effect my ranking. And I find it hard to argue that Foster's resume is better than Johnson's.

So where do you rank Johnson? As you know I have him at #5. And I understand that there is obviously an argument for him to be lower with the likes of Greb (on your list), Loughran an Rosenbloom fighting for their places.

But he HAS to be Top 10. Doesn't he?

I'd go top 10 no arguments. Foster I'll give you on resume but not H2H, I'm going Greb above and I really rate Loughran he has Gren to Johnson's more I think. Conn is a coin toss, Slapsie I'd rank under Johnson purely on personal bias more than anything. On the same subject I have Moore over Charles, managed to catch both of them over here and Charles (admitidly when the poor fellow was at the *** end of his career) was awful whereas Archie was in fine fettle. Funnily enough I came across my Moore/Pompey programme the other day!

[GJC]

I'd go top 10 no arguments. Foster I'll give you on resume but not H2H, I'm going Greb above and I really rate Loughran he has Gren to Johnson's more I think. Conn is a coin toss, Slapsie I'd rank under Johnson purely on personal bias more than anything. On the same subject I have Moore over Charles, managed to catch both of them over here and Charles (admitidly when the poor fellow was at the *** end of his career) was awful whereas Archie was in fine fettle. Funnily enough I came across my Moore/Pompey programme the other day!

*** was fa.g by the way! Got censored on chin.k the other week, as in chin.k in his armour! Beginning to think this censorship is personal!