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[The Big Dunn]

Sure you did, even if you explicitly didnt say so. However, just to confirm, what is your position?

No I didn't. Don't make stuff.

The negatives of tariffs often outweighed the pros which is partly why I am hesitant about this. Since I don't think Trump thought about this carefully I am also against it. To be fair if it forces US companies to buy steel and aluminum from the US and helps the trade deficiency then kudos.

yes, If another President did this, one whose intelligence and acumen I respected more, I'd probably feel differently.

From everything I read this is going to increase costs for US businesses that rely on steel and aluminum, especially those products made with sheet aluminum that isn't available in the US. Car prices are expected to rise which will hurt sales. Market reacted strongly against this move.

Guess we will see.

[JimRaynor]

No I didn't. Don't make stuff.

The negatives of tariffs often outweighed the pros which is partly why I am hesitant about this. Since I don't think Trump thought about this carefully I am also against it. To be fair if it forces US companies to buy steel and aluminum from the US and helps the trade deficiency then kudos.

yes, If another President did this, one whose intelligence and acumen I respected more, I'd probably feel differently.

From everything I read this is going to increase costs for US businesses that rely on steel and aluminum, especially those products made with sheet aluminum that isn't available in the US. Car prices are expected to rise which will hurt sales. Market reacted strongly against this move.

Guess we will see.

I.E. If Obama did this, you'd definitely be singing a different tune.

But guess what, I agree with you on the negative consequences of these tariffs, even though your hostility toward the tariffs stems primarily from the fact that they will come from Trump, because generally, tariffs are something that Democrats tend to support, atleast on paper. My hesitation of these tariffs stems from a general Republican free market view point where it would hinder trade.

Regardless, this is something Trump promised on his campaign trail to the Rust belt, so if delivers he will gain significant approval and support from the areas he needs it most to win reelection.

[The Big Dunn]

I.E. If Obama did this, you'd definitely be singing a different tune.

But guess what, I agree with you on the negative consequences of these tariffs, even though your hostility toward the tariffs stems primarily from the fact that they will come from Trump, because generally, tariffs are something that Democrats tend to support, atleast on paper. My hesitation of these tariffs stems from a general Republican free market view point where it would hinder trade.

Regardless, this is something Trump promised on his campaign trail to the Rust belt, so if delivers he will gain significant approval and support from the areas he needs it most to win reelection.

Not only Obama but Bush or Clinton. Trump doesn't give off the vibe he thinks carefully about these things. My guess is this helps him and his biggest supporters so he went ahead and did it without thinking about the negatives.

Not just because they come from Trump. Frankly, these tariffs seem to undermine his American energy independence goal. Its the same feeling I got when I watch him tout coal and natural gas initiatives while I know it will be one or the other, not both.

That kind of thing makes me hesitant to support.

How will he gain support if all the local politicians, republican media sites, and the local business associations all oppose this?

[JimRaynor]

Not only Obama but Bush or Clinton. Trump doesn't give off the vibe he thinks carefully about these things. My guess is this helps him and his biggest supporters so he went ahead and did it without thinking about the negatives.

Not just because they come from Trump. Frankly, these tariffs seem to undermine his American energy independence goal. Its the same feeling I got when I watch him tout coal and natural gas initiatives while I know it will be one or the other, not both.

That kind of thing makes me hesitant to support.

How will he gain support if all the local politicians, republican media sites, and the local business associations all oppose this?

Red states will vote Red no matter what. Its Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa and Minnesota, that he is needs to win. If he turns those states solidly Red, he then can afford to even lose Florida, North Carolina, and Arizona.

[The Big Dunn]

Red states will vote Red no matter what. Its Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa and Minnesota, that he is needs to win. If he turns those states solidly Red, he then can afford to even lose Florida, North Carolina, and Arizona.

I guess you haven't been watching what is going on. Alabama senate special election. Republican trailing in western PA special election Trump won by 20% points. Democrats just flipped 2 state legislative seats in Connecticut and New Hampshire in districts Trump won.

Not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out the facts.

[JimRaynor]

I guess you haven't been watching what is going on. Alabama senate special election. Republican trailing in western PA special election Trump won by 20% points. Democrats just flipped 2 state legislative seats in Connecticut and New Hampshire in districts Trump won.

Not saying you're wrong. Just pointing out the facts.

Here is another fact, the Democrats Have lost well over 1000 state legislative, gubernatorial, and congress seats since 2012. They were wiped out even more during the 2016 elections.

My point is, that the governance of the country is so overwhelmingly Republican right now that winning a couple of minor seats back in deep red places like Alabama isn't something to be to excited about yet. Democrats have a lot of ground to make, and the first true test of how things will start panning out is in 2018 mid-terms.

[The Big Dunn]

Here is another fact, the Democrats Have lost well over 1000 state legislative, gubernatorial, and congress seats since 2012. They were wiped out even more during the 2016 elections.

My point is, that the governance of the country is so overwhelmingly Republican right now that winning a couple of minor seats back in deep red places like Alabama isn't something to be to excited about yet. Democrats have a lot of ground to make, and the first true test of how things will start panning out is in 2018 mid-terms.

No one doubts those stats but clearly post trump getting elected things are changing.

Pointing these things out shouldn't be interpreted as excitement. Its just pointing out the trends.

Agreed, Dems have a lot of ground to make up. However, with the unexpected resources dems have raised and the resources Republican have had to use just to save seat they should've won easily (given the wide margin Trump won by) is news.

[JimRaynor]

No one doubts those stats but clearly post trump getting elected things are changing.

Pointing these things out shouldn't be interpreted as excitement. Its just pointing out the trends.

Agreed, Dems have a lot of ground to make up. However, with the unexpected resources dems have raised and the resources Republican have had to use just to save seat they should've won easily (given the wide margin Trump won by) is news.

Do you think the Democrats will retake the House and or Senate come 2018?

[The Big Dunn]

Do you think the Democrats will retake the House and or Senate come 2018?

As of right now, definitely no on the Senate. House, possibly, since a lot of republicans have decided to retire.

Take New Jersey for example. Rep Frelinghuysen (R), chairman of the House Appropriations committee isn't running anymore.

I know, 1st glance Republican in blue state no big deal. Read the article.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...lection-374133

In years past, Frelinghuysen’s seat had been considered so safe that liberal filmmaker Michael Moore once attempted to get a ficus tree on the ballot against the congressman to protest the lack of competitive congressional races. Frelinghuysen previously never got less than 58 percent of the vote.

[JimRaynor]

As of right now, definitely no on the Senate. House, possibly, since a lot of republicans have decided to retire.

Take New Jersey for example. Rep Frelinghuysen (R), chairman of the House Appropriations committee isn't running anymore.

I know, 1st glance Republican in blue state no big deal. Read the article.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...lection-374133

In years past, Frelinghuysen’s seat had been considered so safe that liberal filmmaker Michael Moore once attempted to get a ficus tree on the ballot against the congressman to protest the lack of competitive congressional races. Frelinghuysen previously never got less than 58 percent of the vote.

I'll definitely read the article, but I'd also like to hear your take on why the Democrats, with such a seemingly unlikable President might be in danger of not even winning the House of Reps?