Originally posted by tysonali
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Fighters Who Often Get Called A ATG, But You Don't Think They Are?
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Originally posted by The Underdog View PostGriifith was drained at the weight against butter he never boxed as a welterweight again! monzon stopped emile something jose couldnt do
And he wasn't weight-drained. That's just a made-up excuse you're using to try and prove a point that you can't.
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If Monzon's claims to fame are beating Napoles and Griffith then that says just about all. His wins over Valdez and Benvenuti were more impressive due to them being more suited to fight at middleweight. Napoles started at 135 and only moved up to 147 because he couldn't get a title shot at either 135 or 140. He was a legend whose only losses close to his prime were to fluke cuts and to a huge middleweight in Carlos Monzon.
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Everyone post 1980s. The best fighters all learned their trade between 1925 and 1950. There more more fighters then, less weight classes, less belts, fighters fought more often and competition was much more intense. The overall level of skill has been in decline ever since. Once the alphabet governing bodies took over it all just went to rat ****. Now there are fighters without a proper defence, and in-fighting and feigning are both lost & forgotten arts.
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Originally posted by tysonali View PostAbsolutely ridiculous.
Napoles dominated the welterweight division for 6 years and beat HOF's in Emile Griffith and Curtis Cokes.
Napoles' win over Griffith is a lot better than Monzon's (who you have at a ridiculous #9 on your ATG list in your sig) win over Griffith.
Napoles was also schooling Monzon in the early part of their fight, up until he ran out of stamina because of moving up a division.
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Griffith was awful against Napoles, he did seem weight-drained. Credit to Napoles for beating him like a drum though. I still can't give Monzon much credit for beating Griffith, and the second fight was closer than it should have been for Monzon against a spent former welterweight. Although in his defense, Monzon was weight-drained and had recently been shot.
I wonder how Jose Napoles vs Luis Manuel Rodriguez would have gone in the late 60's. Cokes beat Rodriguez, Napoles beat Cokes, but triangle theories rarely prove anything.
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Originally posted by TheGreatA View PostGriffith was awful against Napoles, he did seem weight-drained. Credit to Napoles for beating him like a drum though. I still can't give Monzon much credit for beating Griffith, and the second fight was closer than it should have been for Monzon against a spent former welterweight. Although in his defense, Monzon was weight-drained and had recently been shot.
I wonder how Jose Napoles vs Luis Manuel Rodriguez would have gone in the late 60's. Cokes beat Rodriguez, Napoles beat Cokes, but triangle theories rarely prove anything.
- - Quoting TheGreatA hoping for a return performance.
Plenty of fighters so good in their prime that they get automatic ATG status, aka Mike Tyson. Others like Joe Frazier have to work harder, and in Ali's case, louder. Nobody was calling Foreman anything but a bully.
Meanwhile, Dempsey and Louis considered sacrosanct after the fact. Fighters then were too busy scrappin' to worry about ATG status.
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