Bert Sugar ''Jake Lamotta Is Greater Than Marvin Hagler''

[Southpaw16BF]

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this. Am not fond of Bert's ratings and views. But he is a character. But never lets facts get in the way of a good story!

But what are your thoughts on him saying Lamotta is a greater fighter than Hagler. He rated Lamotta #27 and rating Hagler at #47 in his ATG listings

Does anyone agree tha Lamotta was greater than Hagler. Or do you think's it insane to rank Lamotta higher than Hagler?

[TheGreatA]

I think it has been well established by now that Bert Sugar's all-time great list is a trainwreck.

[Southpaw16BF]

I think it has been well established by now that Bert Sugar's all-time great list is a trainwreck.

But surely does his opinion count for anything? He claims he has been into boxing for as long as he can remember and his first fight Buddy Baer vs Joe Louis 1. And he has seen all the big fights over the last 35 years live.

And so you think having Lamotta over Hagler is insane?

[Southpaw Stinger]

I love Lamotta, you all know that. But any fella with half a brain can tell you Hagler > Lamotta

[TheGreatA]

But surely does his opinion count for anything? He claims he has been into boxing for as long as he can remember and his first fight Buddy Baer vs Joe Louis 1. And he has seen all the big fights over the last 35 years live.

And so you think having Lamotta over Hagler is insane?

I'm not saying it's insane but along with this there are about 50 inconsistencies in his ATG list.

You could perhaps argue that LaMotta fought a better bunch of contenders and champions but this is where Hagler's consistency and dominance comes into play. LaMotta just didn't have that.

[Toney Loc]

The older the better for Bert. He'd suffer a cardiac arrest if he reads some of the NSB threads.

[Marciano90s]

they both got insane chin and amazing careers...but Jackie is still over Hagler.

[Junito-Rulez]

Hagler over Lamotta, more honest than this guy who gave away a fight to get money from Frankie Carbo.

[TheGreatA]

Hagler over Lamotta, more honest than this guy who gave away a fight to get money from Frankie Carbo.

LaMotta was a horrible human being but LaMotta took a dive in order to get a long-deserved title shot, not for money. You think Hagler waited long to get at title shot? LaMotta waited 7 years. This despite being in the top 3 and at times ranked the number 1 all of that time.

Hagler made it in 1977 after knocking off Mike Colbert from the number 1 ranking and was given a title shot in 1979 by Antuofermo.

LaMotta beat Ray Robinson in 1943, quickly making him the number 1 challenger, but Tony Zale elected to go to the army, an understandable decision. However after coming back from the war, he went onto fight Rocky Graziano 3 times despite LaMotta being more highly regarded than Graziano was. Cerdan gave LaMotta a chance when LaMotta was thought to be washed up and an easy opponent.

They were wrong. LaMotta had simply become disinterested in boxing due to all the politics, but when given a chance to fight for the world title he took it and got himself in the shape of his life.

[Marciano90s]

to get a world championship chance.you couldnt **** with the mafia lol