Will Gennady Golovkin go down as a MW great

[billeau2]

Golovkin would stand an even better chance if nobody alive had ever seen him fight and the only evidence for his greatness was heavily biased newspaper reports of his fights.

its the missing ingredient...the instant power that makes hyperbole out of mere success

[billeau2]

I thought he lost to Jacobs last night.

Yeah hes not exactly like Ward who tends to dominate his opposition... I mean the Kovelev fight was a real exception to that rule.

[Anthony342]

Exactly. Even when we get someone willing to fight the best like a Golovkin or Kovalev, the best opponents often wait a long time or outright duck them. That's why I loved it when Kovalev called him Adonis Chickenson haha. Canelo seems to be pulling the same catch weight crap Cotto did as MW champ. Either fight at 160 or give up the damn belt and stay at 154. Golovkin will probably end up being forced to come down. I hope he does and still wins, so then, in a rematch, he can make the conditions and force Canelo to have to fight him at 160.

Was responding to Ghost of Dempsey's point.

[billeau2]

I thought he lost to Jacobs last night.

I wanted to elaborate: GGG didn't show dominance over Jacops. So when we compare performance its worth understanding the difference between squeaking by the judges and showing a dominant performance.

I like to use Ward because to me, he is truly the only guy out of Floyd, Pac and GGG that fufills that criteria. Floyd has never dominated a fellow ATG. its worth noting that Jones did better... Pac beat a lot of guys in wars, but again never really showed that he is a head above the rest. GGG squeaking by likewise.

Ward went into a tourney of his peers and totally wiped the floor with them. And then when people thought Dawson would present an interesting fight he totally dominated Dawson. And people can make excuses but before the fight there were plenty who thought Dawson was a great fighter who would beat Ward up.

If we took Ward's squeak by Kovalev as the criteria for greatness exclusively, we would end up with triple G's win... And Its not enough imo.

[ShoulderRoll]

Well, it's one thing to not show dominance as long as you still win.

But I don't think Golovkin even deserved to win on Saturday. Jacobs made him look a bit one dimensional in my opinion.

Granted, given the low quality of opponents he has been blitzing through it's understandable that he hasn't been able to develop more. He hasn't been getting pushed enough by his foes.

But the fact remains that there are some holes in his arsenal. And if we're talking MW greats then that has to be taken into consideration.

[The Old LefHook]

I thought GGG won a close fight. Jacobs was a showy puncher whose flash was not quite enough to win the judges. He also landed some excellent shots that did not even move GGG's head. Overall, too many of Jacobs' shots were not quite on target even when they landed--neck and ear shots.

We always forget about the Schulberg effect. When we hold greatly biased expectations and the expectations are not fulfilled, the psychological propensity is for us to believe a total failure has occurred. GGG did not knock Jacobs cold within a few rounds as widely predicted, therefore GGG failed and lost. Hagler did not kill Leonard as widely feared, so Hagler failed and lost.

That is called the Sculberg effect, and we are all susceptible to it continually. One might justifiably use the cliche it happens all the time. It does not mean we are ignorant or unobservant when it affects us, it means we are human. The more emotion and expectation we have wrapped up in a fight the more susceptible we are. Even professional judges must deal with the same psychological phenomenon. In my mind it is proven by great ring generals like Ali and Leonard who were able to influence judges from the ring with actions other than punches. Ali and Leonard had a real bead on the minds of judges.

It is no sin against legacy that GGG was given a hard fight, especially two months shy of 35 years old. In fact you cannot have a great legacy without hard fights, so this particular fight will have more positive than negative impact on his legacy, in my opinion. For instance, one thing he proved in this performance is that he can take a great punch from essentially a light heavyweight and not even flinch. We had to have that information to assign him greater legacy. Now we do have the information.

His abilty to take a punch means a mythical matchup with Hagler would be a barn burner. Hagler was able to take the punches of Roldan, Mugabi and Hearns, all of whom likely punched as hard as GGG. None of those guys could have taken their own punches, for they could not even take those of Hagler, but Hagler walked through their punches.

GGG still has some left to do, just as I said before this fight. He did get some important information out there, but it will require even more information to pinpoint the true value of his legacy. If he could finish out with Saunders, Canelo and a Jacobs rematch where a rehydration clause was in efrect, that would be a pretty good legacy. And if somehow he managed to step up and beat Ward, then of course his legacy would go through the roof. I doubt, however, that he could beat Ward, and I suspect he and his management have enough sense to know this. Still, it could conceivably happen, and for boxing fans is the next best alternative to a Kovalev/Ward rematch.

[Anthony342]

No Hagler failed and lost because Leonard avoided a lot of Hagler's shots with his movement and clearly out landed Hagler in the rounds he won.

[Ray Corso]

I'm starting to think this guy is being UNDER rated!
He fights the welter king in Brooks and people say he has no boxing skills or defense!
Then he fights the second rated middleweight behind him and boxes very nicely with very good shoulder and head movement on defense but he still gets criticized for not KOing Danny!

This kid is fighting differently against DIFFERENT opponents and thats what a good fighter does. This guy does adapt and he is smart but the novice doesn't see it because he still boxes out of the pressure style.
When you have someone who carries power in both hands and he can "think" in the ring and adapt he's a damn good fighter.
Chocolatito does it Lomo does it Crawford is getting better, Garcia is learning to get there if he gets his feet moving using double and triple jabs to cut distance quicker. Rigo can too except he is much more cautious about sitting down on his punches and trading.

Looks like the fans on here are getting "younger & dumber"............

Ray

[BKM-]

^You know you're a damn good fighter if even the old man is complimenting you.

Golovkin is a stud. It does show how foolish young boxing fans are, thinking that his last two fights have hurt his rep when on the contrary it has only enhanced GGG's legacy because we've learned more about him in these 2 adversity filled fights than all his dominant wins so far.

[joseph5620]

Yeah hes not exactly like Ward who tends to dominate his opposition... I mean the Kovelev fight was a real exception to that rule.

You can't compare Kovalev to Jacobs. Daniel Jacobs was also a 7-1 underdog.