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Old 04-14-2019, 07:49 PM #91
them_apples them_apples is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
Yeah, but I don't recall Paz having much of a punch at any weight. Conversely, guys like Arguello, Hearns, Canzoneri, Spinks, and Langford carried their power w/ them as they moved up in weight. A good puncher is a good puncher. Jones was a good/great puncher.

Do you watch MMA? Did you see Daniel Cormier KO Stipe Miocic? In MMA he's fought at 205. I don't recall him KO'ing anyone there. But when he moved to Hw he did what no one else could - he KO'd Stipe Miocic with one punch. He actually out-weighed Miocic in that fight.
This is a guy who had wrestler friends of mine in college. At 184!

I dunno if Cormier could still make 184. But I guarantee you he wouldn't KO Miocic at that weight.

It's simple physics.


With Jones, and many fighters today, they bulk up and then cut-down. So they enter the ring well above their contracted weight. And it definitely helps for fighing a more explosive, anaerobic fight.
all those guys you listed generally lost power as they moved up, or in theory the guys they fought were heavier and could take a harder shot.

Arguello had lights out power at 126-130, very good power at 135 and at 140 was a good puncher (depending who he fought).

Same w Duran, at 135 he had lights out power. at 147 he was just a very good puncher.

Jones at heavyweight did not have a good shot.
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:17 PM #92
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- -Keep in mind Roy's fight weight was at the average historical heavy weight for most of that division until they upped it by creating the cruiserwts.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:55 PM #93
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
all those guys you listed generally lost power as they moved up, or in theory the guys they fought were heavier and could take a harder shot.

Arguello had lights out power at 126-130, very good power at 135 and at 140 was a good puncher (depending who he fought).

Same w Duran, at 135 he had lights out power. at 147 he was just a very good puncher.

Jones at heavyweight did not have a good shot.
Arguello lost his size advantage as he moved up. Look at him in the ring w/ Pryor... tell me he's undersized. Clearly, he's not. If he's not still fighting guys jsut a little smaller, he's finally fighting guys his own size.

If Pryor hadn't happened who knows what we'd be saying about Arguello's Jr Ww career. I think it's where he stops. But I don't see many of the fighters associated w/ that division doing what Pryor did to him. I definitely see Arguello as the favorite in most matches.

Duran KO'd Barkley. And his right hand had Marvin second guessing. And how did he beat DeJesus? What power shot did he stop Buchanan with?

I'll concede some people never gain power. Look at Mickey Walker: never a KO puncher. He was ferocious and could stop fighters, but never a one-punch killer like Robinson... that didn't hurt him moving up. In fact, he advanced through the ranks better than Robinson.

But generally, little guys don't put on power like bigger guys. That was just an example. Look at Billy Conn... he went from being a guy who lost to Fritzie Zivic, to a guy narrowly out-pointing Middleweights, to a guy that out-classed Light Heavyweights to a guy who sparked Bob Pastor, and ROCKED Joe Louis. If we had known Conn in his prime, he likely would have been remembered as a terrific finisher and offensive fighter. Consider that: there's a direct relationship with how much more dangerous Conn became with how much size he conceded!

Getting back to MMA. Cormier isn't the only guy to find his power as he filled out: Anderson Silva, Robert Whitaker, Kelvin Gastelum and Anthony Johnson have all become known for their power - reference their respective Welterweight careers and tell me what foreshadowing you see of the killers to come. Spoiler alert: you won't find it. Not for a single one of them. They were all too depleted for their potential to show.

If you want to say Kelvin couldn't KO Adesanya simply because he's smaller, or Johnson couldn't KO Arlovski because he was too small, that's fine. But there's a difference between 1) fighters finally finding an opponent too big, and 2) amassing weight having no effect on KO power. You seem unaware of said difference.

Last edited by Rusty Tromboni; 04-18-2019 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:48 PM #94
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
Duran KO'd Barkley. And his right hand had Marvin second guessing. And how did he beat DeJesus? What power shot did he stop Buchanan with?
.
- -Duran beat Barkley by split decision.

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Buchanan retired himself after a Duran low blow delivered when the ref failed to stop the fighting after the bell sounded. Duran stopped it for him.
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