Who Has the Better Body of Work, Andre Ward or James Toney?

[Vadrigar.]

I just can't look past that shocking Kovalev TKO last Saturday so I give it to Ward. Toney is good but doesn't have a standout win that definitively puts his resume above Ward's. Holyfield is a big name and Toney moved up, but he was washed up by then.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Bull****. Jirov is no where near as good as Kovalev and literally has no good wins.

Yes McCallum is better than anyone Ward has beat but IMO mcCallum never lost to Toney except for when he was shot in the 3rd fight.

Jirov is no where near as good as Kovalev

Actually, Vassily Jirov is at a similar caliber / level as Sergey Kovalev. Jirov at the time was one of the best cruiserweights and the cruiserweight world champion in the same way Kovalev was recently one of the best light heavyweights and a light heavyweight world champion.

and literally has no good wins.

The same argument can be made for Kovalev too. I really can't see any opponent Kovalev has beaten that is at all better than Jirov's best opponents.

but IMO mcCallum never lost to Toney except for when he was shot in the 3rd fight.

Likewise, in my opinion Andre Ward lost the first fight against Sergey Kovalev and was gifted a controversial stoppage in the rematch.

At the very least, James Toney never had to cheat anywhere near as much as Andre Ward, even against the best possible opposition.

[Redd Foxx]

Other level **** how?

Ward get's hit less than Toney.

Never enough for you, Dan. I could say Toney was the lowest piece of shyt on earth but he had good taste in cars and you'd deny my point about the cars.
(just playin, BTW)

[IronDanHamza]

Never enough for you, Dan. I could say Toney was the lowest piece of shyt on earth but he had good taste in cars and you'd deny my point about the cars.
(just playin, BTW)

I just don't see it.

Toney in his prime got hit more by Dave Tiberi than Ward has in basically his whole career.

Roy Jones, Floyd, Whitaker, Ali, that's some "other level ****"

Toney is some "it's ok" ****. IMO.

[IronDanHamza]

Actually, Vassily Jirov is at a similar caliber / level as Sergey Kovalev. Jirov at the time was one of the best cruiserweights and the cruiserweight world champion in the same way Kovalev was recently one of the best light heavyweights and a light heavyweight world champion.



The same argument can be made for Kovalev too. I really can't see any opponent Kovalev has beaten that is at all better than Jirov's best opponents.



Likewise, in my opinion Andre Ward lost the first fight against Sergey Kovalev and was gifted a controversial stoppage in the rematch.

At the very least, James Toney never had to cheat anywhere near as much as Andre Ward, even against the best possible opposition.

Yeah right. Jirov has zero wins over ranked opponents.

Kovalev has beaten Cleverly, Pascal, Hopkins and arguably beat Ward. All ranked top 5.

So you absolutely cannot say the same for Kovalev.

James Toney is a drug cheat so I think that argument is poor.

[SonnyboyReturns]

Toney the ****1n glorified waist rotator?

Big fat bum who is as inconsistent as my bowel movements.

[Cutthroat]

Toney has 10 losses in 90 fights. Ray Robinson had 19 losses in 200 fights. Losses don't tell the whole story. Ward never lost, but he never fought anyone on the level of a prime Roy Jones either. When you look at who Toney beat, they are leaps and bounds above anyone Ward ever beat.

29 fights in JT admittedly lost to Dave Tiberi, that would never happen to SOG, NEVER.

29 fights in Ward already had victories over Kessler, Froch, Abraham, Dawson, Barrera etc. It cannot be ignored how at age 25 he had already dominated Joe Calzaghe's best career win, who many consider an ATG.

They tried rushing him back against Kovalev, that's the only reason the 1st fight was so close. The rematch he stopped him.

[GhostofDempsey]

29 fights in JT admittedly lost to Dave Tiberi, that would never happen to SOG, NEVER.

29 fights in Ward already had victories over Kessler, Froch, Abraham, Dawson, Barrera etc. It cannot be ignored how at age 25 he had already dominated Joe Calzaghe's best career win, who many consider an ATG.

They tried rushing him back against Kovalev, that's the only reason the 1st fight was so close. The rematch he stopped him.

Johnson, McCallum, Nunn all way better than anyone Ward fought.

[Cutthroat]

Johnson, McCallum, Nunn all way better than anyone Ward fought.

Not convinced at all. I don't view fighters of the old as invincible, even RJJ got put on his ass by Lou Del Valle.

If this is Kovalev, Beterbiev, Bivol, even Barrera landing this punch RJJ is asleep shaking on the canvas

[hhs661]

Here is a summary of their top wins:

Ward:

Sergey Kovalev x 2
Carl Froch
Mikkel Kessler
Chad Dawson
Arthur Abraham
Sako Bika
Sullivan Barrera

Unified champion at 168 and 175.


Toney:

Michael Nunn
Reggie Johnson
Mike McCallum x 2
Iran Barkley
Vassily Jirov
Merqui Sosa
Evander Holyfield


Losses to Roy Jones Jr.. Montell Griffin x 2, Drake Thadzi and numerous other losses past his prime at heavyweight.

Won titles at middleweight and super middleweight

Popped for roids twice i think.


I'm Voting Ward