Manny Pacquiao has 1 good WW win imo

[BuckToothed]

To Hi Hater,

You insinuated earlier that Floyd's WW record is better than Pac's. Above is Floyd's record. Explain why you consider this as better than Pac's WW record.

Do you honestly think that, aside from Shane, can any of the fighters that Floyd fought at WW beat any of the version of Cotto, Clottey, or Margarito that Pac fought?

He thinks Hatton can, whose only win at 147 was against Collazo, who Hi Hater himself said is a bum.

[tatangb45]

Lets not get childish... Bias opinion? U have yet to actually argue with anything I said, all you've done is say its an opinion (despite very few of it actual being pure opinion)...

And no, there was no reason to bring up Floyd. The TS didn't say Floyd's was better, all he said was Pac's is overrated. So ur retort to what the TS said is to mention Floyd... That makes no sense and just goes to show kind bias person I'm talking to

OK. You're really asking for it, so here goes.

1) You claim that ODLH is dehydrated and weight drained. Fact or opinion?
Nacho said he was not and that DLH prepared for it in accordance to his dietician's advice. So, are you saying that Nacho simply made an opinion, while yours is a fact?

2) You said, "Clottey was nothing. He was not even trying to win."
I say, Clottey was just like the rest of Pac's last five or six fights. All could not cope with Pac's power and speed. Either they were knocked out cold (Diaz and Hatton), run scared like Cotto and Mosley, quit like DLH, or, got busted up like Margo.
Have you asked yourself why these fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac?
DLH was forced to retire and eventually had to go to rehab for substance abuse. Hatton ended up a broken man and an alcohol and substance abuser. No one seems to know where Clottey is now. Cotto, forced to move out of the division. Margo is still attempting to redeem himself. Lastly Shane, with his future in boxing now very much uncertain.
Now, which opinion is better, yours or mine? Or do you still insist that what you stated is fact and not opinion?

3)"Mosley was horrible. The worst Mosley is even capable of looking.." ...your statement.
I say, Mosley did indeed looked horrible, but not because he was shot, but because he was simply outclassed. For one, he did not run out of gas, and two, he was knocked down only in the second time in his career, which apparently threw out all the game plan Stewart prepared for him. He was even heard begging for the fight to be stopped by the tenth round.

With all of the above, I just presented to you counter arguments based on facts. However, the arguments themselves are not facts but opinions. I would even claim that mine are stronger than your arguments, yet I will not categorically claim that my conclusions are facts.

With this, I hope I made myself very clear.

[tatangb45]

OK. You're really asking for it, so here goes.

1) You claim that ODLH is dehydrated and weight drained. Fact or opinion?
Nacho said he was not and that DLH prepared for it in accordance to his dietician's advice. So, are you saying that Nacho simply made an opinion, while yours is a fact?

2) You said, "Clottey was nothing. He was not even trying to win."
I say, Clottey was just like the rest of Pac's last five or six fights. All could not cope with Pac's power and speed. Either they were knocked out cold (Diaz and Hatton), run scared like Cotto and Mosley, quit like DLH, or, got busted up like Margo.
Have you asked yourself why these fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac?
DLH was forced to retire and eventually had to go to rehab for substance abuse. Hatton ended up a broken man and an alcohol and substance abuser. No one seems to know where Clottey is now. Cotto, forced to move out of the division. Margo is still attempting to redeem himself. Lastly Shane, with his future in boxing now very much uncertain.
Now, which opinion is better, yours or mine? Or do you still insist that what you stated is fact and not opinion?

3)"Mosley was horrible. The worst Mosley is even capable of looking.." ...your statement.
I say, Mosley did indeed looked horrible, but not because he was shot, but because he was simply outclassed. For one, he did not run out of gas, and two, he was knocked down only in the second time in his career, which apparently threw out all the game plan Stewart prepared for him. He was even heard begging for the fight to be stopped by the tenth round.

With all of the above, I just presented to you counter arguments based on facts. However, the arguments themselves are not facts but opinions. I would even claim that mine are stronger than your arguments, yet I will not categorically claim that my conclusions are facts.

With this, I hope I made myself very clear.

Btw, JDezi4, it was the ts who insinuated that Floyd's record at WW is better than Pac's and that's the reason for putting Floyd's record on record.... just to clear things up.

[Gutz]

OK. You're really asking for it, so here goes.

1) You claim that ODLH is dehydrated and weight drained. Fact or opinion?
Nacho said he was not and that DLH prepared for it in accordance to his dietician's advice. So, are you saying that Nacho simply made an opinion, while yours is a fact?

2) You said, "Clottey was nothing. He was not even trying to win."
I say, Clottey was just like the rest of Pac's last five or six fights. All could not cope with Pac's power and speed. Either they were knocked out cold (Diaz and Hatton), run scared like Cotto and Mosley, quit like DLH, or, got busted up like Margo.
Have you asked yourself why these fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac?
DLH was forced to retire and eventually had to go to rehab for substance abuse. Hatton ended up a broken man and an alcohol and substance abuser. No one seems to know where Clottey is now. Cotto, forced to move out of the division. Margo is still attempting to redeem himself. Lastly Shane, with his future in boxing now very much uncertain.
Now, which opinion is better, yours or mine? Or do you still insist that what you stated is fact and not opinion?

3)"Mosley was horrible. The worst Mosley is even capable of looking.." ...your statement.
I say, Mosley did indeed looked horrible, but not because he was shot, but because he was simply outclassed. For one, he did not run out of gas, and two, he was knocked down only in the second time in his career, which apparently threw out all the game plan Stewart prepared for him. He was even heard begging for the fight to be stopped by the tenth round.

With all of the above, I just presented to you counter arguments based on facts. However, the arguments themselves are not facts but opinions. I would even claim that mine are stronger than your arguments, yet I will not categorically claim that my conclusions are facts.

With this, I hope I made myself very clear.

great post!

[Dehydrator]

OK. You're really asking for it, so here goes.

1) You claim that ODLH is dehydrated and weight drained. Fact or opinion?
Nacho said he was not and that DLH prepared for it in accordance to his dietician's advice. So, are you saying that Nacho simply made an opinion, while yours is a fact?

2) You said, "Clottey was nothing. He was not even trying to win."
I say, Clottey was just like the rest of Pac's last five or six fights. All could not cope with Pac's power and speed. Either they were knocked out cold (Diaz and Hatton), run scared like Cotto and Mosley, quit like DLH, or, got busted up like Margo.
Have you asked yourself why these fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac?
DLH was forced to retire and eventually had to go to rehab for substance abuse. Hatton ended up a broken man and an alcohol and substance abuser. No one seems to know where Clottey is now. Cotto, forced to move out of the division. Margo is still attempting to redeem himself. Lastly Shane, with his future in boxing now very much uncertain.
Now, which opinion is better, yours or mine? Or do you still insist that what you stated is fact and not opinion?

3)"Mosley was horrible. The worst Mosley is even capable of looking.." ...your statement.
I say, Mosley did indeed looked horrible, but not because he was shot, but because he was simply outclassed. For one, he did not run out of gas, and two, he was knocked down only in the second time in his career, which apparently threw out all the game plan Stewart prepared for him. He was even heard begging for the fight to be stopped by the tenth round.

With all of the above, I just presented to you counter arguments based on facts. However, the arguments themselves are not facts but opinions. I would even claim that mine are stronger than your arguments, yet I will not categorically claim that my conclusions are facts.

With this, I hope I made myself very clear.

good post, mano po tatang.

[tatangb45]

good post, mano po tatang.

Salamat, iho.

[JDezi4]

OK. You're really asking for it, so here goes.

1) You claim that ODLH is dehydrated and weight drained. Fact or opinion?
Nacho said he was not and that DLH prepared for it in accordance to his dietician's advice. So, are you saying that Nacho simply made an opinion, while yours is a fact?

First of all "he was dehydrated and weight drained" is a statement that can NEVER be seen as an opinion Lmfao... Even if it is proven to not be a fact, then its just wrong, it doesn't all of a sudden become an opinion. Neither can Nacho's statement lol.

So your telling me that becuz his trainer said he followed the diet correctly, the Oscar that fought Manny, that couldn't even throw a jab, was in tip top shape? Do u really think following a diet can't result in muscle loss and dehydration? The guy blows up to 165 (at least) while weighing in at 154, but can't even hold down more than 2lbs of food and water weighing in at 147lbs Lol... think about that. Oscar himself said that he felt great, but showed up at the fight hardly able to move... (Which is a FACT BTW, all u gotta do is watch the fight)

Did u ever consider that maybe your only believing what Nacho said becuz it make's Pac look better, AKA displaying bias opinion for one explanation and not the other becuz it helps your point? The guy had IV's in him... Freddie Roach saw this (FACT)... Or was Roach only saying that to take away from Manny's accomplishment lmfao!

Anyone else that wants to give you props for your comment should look at my first reply... Right off the bat, ur comment is bad... Let's see what else u got

2) You said, "Clottey was nothing. He was not even trying to win."
I say, Clottey was just like the rest of Pac's last five or six fights. All could not cope with Pac's power and speed. Either they were knocked out cold (Diaz and Hatton), run scared like Cotto and Mosley, quit like DLH, or, got busted up like Margo.
Have you asked yourself why these fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac?
DLH was forced to retire and eventually had to go to rehab for substance abuse. Hatton ended up a broken man and an alcohol and substance abuser. No one seems to know where Clottey is now. Cotto, forced to move out of the division. Margo is still attempting to redeem himself. Lastly Shane, with his future in boxing now very much uncertain.
Now, which opinion is better, yours or mine? Or do you still insist that what you stated is fact and not opinion?

Clottey didn't even enter the first round trying to win. If Clottey only stopped throwing punches in the second half of the fight, or even by the 5th round, than you'd have a point. But he NEVER put up a game effort in that fight. Cotto and Mosley didn't start running until they were knocked down (the second knockdown for Cotto), prior to which they were trying to win, and in Cotto's case actually was out boxing him. And (maybe not so much with shot Mosley but), even while Cotto was running he never stopped throwing meaningful punches. Cotto was swinging for the fences with his left hook (obviously trying to get a KO AKA trying to win), proof is in the destroyed cauliflower ear Pac had after the fight (and obviously u can see it happening during the fight too). Since there's proof... isn't it Basically a fact? Maybe not always, but in this case?

Your entire point, especially the second paragraph, doesn't disprove the FACT that Clottey entered that fight not trying to win/didn't put up any kind of game effort since the beginning of round 1. Like I said, u could have beat prime Mike Tyson if he chose not to throw any punches, would u really consider that a "good win"? Good name maybe, not a good win.

And to answer ur question, why SOME of those fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac, in the case of De La Hoya and Mosley, they were both shot. De La Hoya, already showing signs of decline prior to this, was dehydrated and weight drained (FACT, not opinion lmfao...). Mosley, who showed a serious decline in ability in his draw (which was arguably a loss) to Sergio Mora, couldn't have possibly gotten any better 8 months later when fighting Pacquiao.

And don't get all that twisted with me saying Pacquiao isn't a world class fighter. U put a world class fighter in there with a dehydrated/weight drained fighter, on the decline, and he will always dominate them in a way they will likely never be dominated again. Shot Muhammad Ali wasn't as badly beaten by Trever Berbick as he was by Larry Holmes was he?

3)"Mosley was horrible. The worst Mosley is even capable of looking.." ...your statement.
I say, Mosley did indeed looked horrible, but not because he was shot, but because he was simply outclassed. For one, he did not run out of gas, and two, he was knocked down only in the second time in his career, which apparently threw out all the game plan Stewart prepared for him. He was even heard begging for the fight to be stopped by the tenth round.

So you're saying that I'm right about that being a FACT... Mosley looked absolutely horrible... (In Truth: This is an opinion, although its one of those opinion that anyone that disagrees with it is ignorant, so it might as well be fact) That's really the gist of what you're trying to say, right? In which case, there was no point, other than to try and build up Pacquiao's accomplishment of beating Shane Mosley by claiming that he did so "not because [Mosley] was shot, but because he was simply outclassed."

But didn't u have Mosley listed as 1 of Floyd's unimpressive victories at welterweight? So I don't get what your trying to defend here? R u implying that he was an unimpressive victory for Floyd, but a good one for Manny, despite him actually looking worse (the more common opinion of non-bias fans for both fights)?

Also this doesn't contradict my point, which was that Pacquiao didn't look good fighting this broke down Mosley... Lol, did u forget that part? The 1 actual opinion you could have easily blew off as just opinion (although its the more common opinion of non bias fans) and u missed it trying to be too smart

Bold: Lastly, it was not Stewart, it was Richardson.

With this, I hope I made myself very clear.

You've made your stance as a bias Pacquiao fan very clear (Note: I didn't say *******)... And don't let those "good post" comments let u get a big head. I bet all 3 of them r either also bias Pacquiao fans, or just read the big words and proper grammar u used and assumed it was a good post (cudos for the grammar)... The refute I just made clearly shows it was not... And unless u can't refute my refute (I have my doubts, I'll admit), this conversation isn't over.

[JDezi4]

Btw, JDezi4, it was the ts who insinuated that Floyd's record at WW is better than Pac's and that's the reason for putting Floyd's record on record.... just to clear things up.

Ok, I'll admit I was wrong... But basically what I was getting at is that you're being a bias Pacquiao fan (Again, Note: Didn't say *******)

[go1nbanana]

Oscar was a dead man walking, did you see the Forbes fight? What makes Cotto better than a good win? Cotto was damaged after the Margarito fight. What did Cotto do after the Margarito fight at WW to be considered such a great win? Beating Jennings for a vacant belt, arguably losing to Clottey? That's a weak ass argument. Everybody should know by now that I can't stand Manny, but I'm calling his WW run the way I see it.

bitter? (against manny?) keep me honest, what have you lost when manny won?

[go1nbanana]

First of all "he was dehydrated and weight drained" is a statement that can NEVER be seen as an opinion Lmfao... Even if it is proven to not be a fact, then its just wrong, it doesn't all of a sudden become an opinion. Neither can Nacho's statement lol.

So your telling me that becuz his trainer said he followed the diet correctly, the Oscar that fought Manny, that couldn't even throw a jab, was in tip top shape? Do u really think following a diet can't result in muscle loss and dehydration? The guy blows up to 165 (at least) while weighing in at 154, but can't even hold down more than 2lbs of food and water weighing in at 147lbs Lol... think about that. Oscar himself said that he felt great, but showed up at the fight hardly able to move... (Which is a FACT BTW, all u gotta do is watch the fight)

Did u ever consider that maybe your only believing what Nacho said becuz it make's Pac look better, AKA displaying bias opinion for one explanation and not the other becuz it helps your point? The guy had IV's in him... Freddie Roach saw this (FACT)... Or was Roach only saying that to take away from Manny's accomplishment lmfao!

Anyone else that wants to give you props for your comment should look at my first reply... Right off the bat, ur comment is bad... Let's see what else u got



Clottey didn't even enter the first round trying to win. If Clottey only stopped throwing punches in the second half of the fight, or even by the 5th round, than you'd have a point. But he NEVER put up a game effort in that fight. Cotto and Mosley didn't start running until they were knocked down (the second knockdown for Cotto), prior to which they were trying to win, and in Cotto's case actually was out boxing him. And (maybe not so much with shot Mosley but), even while Cotto was running he never stopped throwing meaningful punches. Cotto was swinging for the fences with his left hook (obviously trying to get a KO AKA trying to win), proof is in the destroyed cauliflower ear Pac had after the fight (and obviously u can see it happening during the fight too). Since there's proof... isn't it Basically a fact? Maybe not always, but in this case?

Your entire point, especially the second paragraph, doesn't disprove the FACT that Clottey entered that fight not trying to win/didn't put up any kind of game effort since the beginning of round 1. Like I said, u could have beat prime Mike Tyson if he chose not to throw any punches, would u really consider that a "good win"? Good name maybe, not a good win.

And to answer ur question, why SOME of those fighters were so dominated as they were against Pac, in the case of De La Hoya and Mosley, they were both shot. De La Hoya, already showing signs of decline prior to this, was dehydrated and weight drained (FACT, not opinion lmfao...). Mosley, who showed a serious decline in ability in his draw (which was arguably a loss) to Sergio Mora, couldn't have possibly gotten any better 8 months later when fighting Pacquiao.

And don't get all that twisted with me saying Pacquiao isn't a world class fighter. U put a world class fighter in there with a dehydrated/weight drained fighter, on the decline, and he will always dominate them in a way they will likely never be dominated again. Shot Muhammad Ali wasn't as badly beaten by Trever Berbick as he was by Larry Holmes was he?



So you're saying that I'm right about that being a FACT... Mosley looked absolutely horrible... (In Truth: This is an opinion, although its one of those opinion that anyone that disagrees with it is ignorant, so it might as well be fact) That's really the gist of what you're trying to say, right? In which case, there was no point, other than to try and build up Pacquiao's accomplishment of beating Shane Mosley by claiming that he did so "not because [Mosley] was shot, but because he was simply outclassed."

But didn't u have Mosley listed as 1 of Floyd's unimpressive victories at welterweight? So I don't get what your trying to defend here? R u implying that he was an unimpressive victory for Floyd, but a good one for Manny, despite him actually looking worse (the more common opinion of non-bias fans for both fights)?

Also this doesn't contradict my point, which was that Pacquiao didn't look good fighting this broke down Mosley... Lol, did u forget that part? The 1 actual opinion you could have easily blew off as just opinion (although its the more common opinion of non bias fans) and u missed it trying to be too smart

Bold: Lastly, it was not Stewart, it was Richardson.



You've made your stance as a bias Pacquiao fan very clear (Note: I didn't say *******)... And don't let those "good post" comments let u get a big head. I bet all 3 of them r either also bias Pacquiao fans, or just read the big words and proper grammar u used and assumed it was a good post (cudos for the grammar)... The refute I just made clearly shows it was not... And unless u can't refute my refute (I have my doubts, I'll admit), this conversation isn't over.

enough of the excuses...who would read all those lengthy excuses?? geez..no point twisting stories to suit your argument