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Old 10-18-2018, 04:54 PM #11
Eff Pandas Eff Pandas is offline
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
the problem is that you open a hellish can of worms when you socialize medicine. what else do you socialize? do you socialize my business, which sells capital equipment to these companies? my suppliers, who sell steel to me?
I think any field where there is people's future in play shouldn't be price gouged, either way, by private en****** influence. Medicine. Prison. School. Sh^t like that. Sh^t where there is less competition involved basically I guess.

People can't even shop for prices for medical care the way things work now. Thats one of the first issues with the problems of healthcare in the US. You can't call around to find out who's got a deal on a kidney transplant. Prisoners don't get to choose which prison they go to. And your school is basically about the luck of where you live for most people. There isn't true competition when sh^t works like that. And that leads to a lot of people in that landscape to take advantage of people or the system as is in various ways.

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what about the doctor who paid 200 thousand to go to medical school, you gonna pass the "cut all doctor's pay" act in 2019 and subsidize his medical school? you gonna expect talented, driven people who went to medical school and put in the work predominantly to get f#cking paid to do the same job for half the money? i mean really, you gonna work 80 hours a week as a resient and make 1/2 of what a lawyer makes for what is reported to be a much easier schooling and qualification process? yeah f#cking irght!
Well school is a thing I got a problem with too so if secondary schooling was handled more like K thru 12 then nobody would be paying $200k to become anything, but thats a whole other argument.

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i agree that the profitability of particularly the conglomerated and just generally massive pharmaceutical industry is our biggest issue [divices and hospitals are a much lesser evil, i go to pharma shows and have pharma clients and my suppliers do millions every year in the idustry,] but just think about what would be involved when you try and overhaul it. you'd turn the US government into a partner and give it ownership, the goal of all socialist economies and their governments.
Idk man I just think there are certain things that a country shouldn't make about money & the health of their citizens would be one of them. Healthcare should be a right for US citizens. And I suspect if that was the case we'd be a much healthier country with long lifespans that'd return more profit to companies in the US & help the US economy more than all these never take a vacation mfers do now as they cough all day while pining for a cig. So it wouldn't even be like a gift or freebie as it'd help the US in the world economy even more with all these healthy mfers living longer who never take a vacation.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:23 PM #12
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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
I think any field where there is people's future in play shouldn't be price gouged, either way, by private en****** influence. Medicine. Prison. School. Sh^t like that. Sh^t where there is less competition involved basically I guess.

People can't even shop for prices for medical care the way things work now. Thats one of the first issues with the problems of healthcare in the US. You can't call around to find out who's got a deal on a kidney transplant. Prisoners don't get to choose which prison they go to. And your school is basically about the luck of where you live for most people. There isn't true competition when sh^t works like that. And that leads to a lot of people in that landscape to take advantage of people or the system as is in various ways.



Well school is a thing I got a problem with too so if secondary schooling was handled more like K thru 12 then nobody would be paying $200k to become anything, but thats a whole other argument.



Idk man I just think there are certain things that a country shouldn't make about money & the health of their citizens would be one of them. Healthcare should be a right for US citizens. And I suspect if that was the case we'd be a much healthier country with long lifespans that'd return more profit to companies in the US & help the US economy more than all these never take a vacation mfers do now as they cough all day while pining for a cig. So it wouldn't even be like a gift or freebie as it'd help the US in the world economy even more with all these healthy mfers living longer who never take a vacation.


jsut recognize that once you do that to one of our biggest industries that you have kissed capitalism goodbye and turned the government into a partner for anything you regulate with the FDA.


and also expect socialist levels of taxation. i'm talking about taxes that are so big, and hikes that are so drastic, that you'd limit most businesses from even growing. medicare is already 15% of our spending,and it's projected to make it to as high as 20% very quickly as the baby boomer's age and require more care. only 9% of medicare goes ot people under 65. just imagine the cost of insuring everybody else. again, you are talking about the death of american capitalism. healthcare is a massive cost for people who employ people full time. i'm talking about 10-12 thousand, on average, per person employed. i sell machines that put people out of a job. sucks, but it's the reailty of what i do. anecdotally i'd contribute maybe 50% of those displaced from a job down to increased healthcare costs. when you pay a minimum wage employee to work full time you still ahve to pay the same 10-12 thousand a year to insure his family. it's an incentive to eliminate jobs as it is.
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Old 10-18-2018, 07:02 PM #13
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
jsut recognize that once you do that to one of our biggest industries that you have kissed capitalism goodbye and turned the government into a partner for anything you regulate with the FDA.
I don't buy that. Maybe everything shouldn't work under the capitalism method. Certainly everything doesn't all work under it now.

Thats not to say some bells & whistles shouldn't be added to prevent bs happening under any non-capitalism sorta system to cuz thats not perfect either (& it isn't now), but if healthcare is about capitalism why can't I shop around for the best prices for w/e surgery I or a family member needs?

That would be true capitalism & would make it a competitive industry. Its not currently under a capitalistic, competitive system NOW I'd argue. And hell that WOULD be better than w/e they are doing now.

Although I think you still encounter problems with these companies that are in the medical field that are doing a lot of the prescription price gouging bs. So that sh^t would be a whole other angle to it all.

Quote:
and also expect socialist levels of taxation. i'm talking about taxes that are so big, and hikes that are so drastic, that you'd limit most businesses from even growing. medicare is already 15% of our spending,and it's projected to make it to as high as 20% very quickly as the baby boomer's age and require more care. only 9% of medicare goes ot people under 65. just imagine the cost of insuring everybody else. again, you are talking about the death of american capitalism. healthcare is a massive cost for people who employ people full time. i'm talking about 10-12 thousand, on average, per person employed. i sell machines that put people out of a job. sucks, but it's the reailty of what i do. anecdotally i'd contribute maybe 50% of those displaced from a job down to increased healthcare costs. when you pay a minimum wage employee to work full time you still ahve to pay the same 10-12 thousand a year to insure his family. it's an incentive to eliminate jobs as it is.
I think a lot of these problems fix themselves if medical care isn't crazy like it is now. If a band aid costs 50cents or some more reasonable price that allows for a marginal profit without gouging customers & if everything else costs what it really should cost vs what some bean counter hired by the hospital thinks that the insurance will pay then nothing crazy the opposite way will happen. Like I said I think true & fair capitalism would work better then w/e is going on in healthcare now.

Or outside of the prescription sh^t it would. Although even that would be tamed real quick if they legally allowed for less price gouging. Sure that would limit some drugs that companies discover, but if healthcare was more reasonable all around maybe pills wouldn't be as lucrative a business is anyway. Maybe it'd make more sense for the government to throw out 1M offers to discover medicines for x or y & then random people will eventually discover those drugs to get the 1M & then the government could own & offer the drug to people in need at a more reasonable price.

Idk but I know sh^t is massively effed now when a band aid can cost you a couple hundred dollars & an ambulance ride is a grand. Anyone can see thats a problem & thats a problem cuz of hospitals trying to f#ck over insurance companies & thats a huge problem for anyone or their children who don't have insurance at all or got sh^tty insurance cuz its not like insurance companies aren't passing the f#ckery along to their customers either.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:37 AM #14
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Originally Posted by Eff Pandas View Post
I don't buy that. Maybe everything shouldn't work under the capitalism method. Certainly everything doesn't all work under it now.

Thats not to say some bells & whistles shouldn't be added to prevent bs happening under any non-capitalism sorta system to cuz thats not perfect either (& it isn't now), but if healthcare is about capitalism why can't I shop around for the best prices for w/e surgery I or a family member needs?

That would be true capitalism & would make it a competitive industry. Its not currently under a capitalistic, competitive system NOW I'd argue. And hell that WOULD be better than w/e they are doing now.

Although I think you still encounter problems with these companies that are in the medical field that are doing a lot of the prescription price gouging bs. So that sh^t would be a whole other angle to it all.



I think a lot of these problems fix themselves if medical care isn't crazy like it is now. If a band aid costs 50cents or some more reasonable price that allows for a marginal profit without gouging customers & if everything else costs what it really should cost vs what some bean counter hired by the hospital thinks that the insurance will pay then nothing crazy the opposite way will happen. Like I said I think true & fair capitalism would work better then w/e is going on in healthcare now.

Or outside of the prescription sh^t it would. Although even that would be tamed real quick if they legally allowed for less price gouging. Sure that would limit some drugs that companies discover, but if healthcare was more reasonable all around maybe pills wouldn't be as lucrative a business is anyway. Maybe it'd make more sense for the government to throw out 1M offers to discover medicines for x or y & then random people will eventually discover those drugs to get the 1M & then the government could own & offer the drug to people in need at a more reasonable price.

Idk but I know sh^t is massively effed now when a band aid can cost you a couple hundred dollars & an ambulance ride is a grand. Anyone can see thats a problem & thats a problem cuz of hospitals trying to f#ck over insurance companies & thats a huge problem for anyone or their children who don't have insurance at all or got sh^tty insurance cuz its not like insurance companies aren't passing the f#ckery along to their customers either.


you don't think insurance companies "shop around?"
that this industry isn't competitive?

equipment, drugs, etc have no competition?

you're removed from the process and don't undesrstand it. there's plenty of competition. believe me, somebody is shopping around for you. that's what an insurance policy does. if you want to go hospital to hospital and get a quote to pay cash on an ACL you can! same if you get cut and require stiches, if your dog gets hurt, you need new teeth, etc.

the government just hasn't come in and taken control of pricing completely, the way it is trending in europe and elsewhere.


you really don't know what your'e talking about and this isn't a conversation worth having. enjoyu your saturday bruv
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:00 AM #15
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Welfare, Libtards and that thur mooslim Obama are the cause of all our problems.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:25 AM #16
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To much TV, STDs, druggies, governing bodies and smoke factories
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:35 AM #17
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It’s because amiericans consume about 80lbs of sugar a year. Real stat from the book The case against sugar.
Sugar, actually all carbs are extremely harmful to humans. I ensrent supposed to eat carbs. But we do and most of our calories that we ingest are carbs. It causes diabetes, cancer, dementia (researchers are now calling Alzheimer’s type 3 diabetes’s , croans etc.

The more carbs yiu ingest the shorter your lifespan.

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Old 10-19-2018, 11:39 AM #18
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Originally Posted by .!WAR MIKEY! View Post
fast food should be outlawed. I see these lil kids are like 200lbs and like 10 year olds. wtf.
Sugar should be outlawed. But yes fast food contains plenty of it.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:42 AM #19
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Welfare, Libtards and that thur mooslim Obama are the cause of all our problems.
Damn facist.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:10 PM #20
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Originally Posted by Don Pichardo View Post
Sugar should be outlawed. But yes fast food contains plenty of it.
I think people should be able to eat themselves to death as long as it doesn't harm other people. And currently I think it does since healthy people end up paying for diabetes and heart diease treatment for the fatasses.
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