Robinson or Ali, who's really the greatest?

[bender2000]

robinson the real atg best ever he had it all , the best welter and middleweight probably ever, funny how no welter fights were ever filmed when he was at his fastest and deadliest , also with the junior divisions now he would have won a lot of different belts remember he should have won the lightheavy belt as he was handling maxim well if not for that record heatwave night that's the only thing that stopped that happening.

[JAB5239]

Robinson, Greb, Armstrong, Langford, Pep, Benny Leonard, Duran, Ali, Louis, Fitzsimmons.

Or something like that.

The top 3 are solidified. Ali doesn't belong there, neither does any other ATG.

SRR over Ali. Comparing skills and resumes this should be an easy pick for any objective fan. P4p...that's a much tougher discussion. I personally rank Langford and Greb ahead of Robinson based on resume. But by no means would I argue that Robinson shouldn't be ranked number 1. It boils down to personal preference.

[billeau2]

its always important to qualify when we talk about these categories. Jab hinted to this in his post...

So why do people think Robinson was so great? If you talk to most trainers its because Robinson could do so many things, beat you so many ways. There are two things I have always heard about Robinson: The first one was how he could punch going backwards. this seemed to be an incredible fiat to most boxing men.

The second was that Robinson, even though he had a killer instinct, actually did not like to fight. He wanted to be a dancer and was by all accounts a mediocre showman. He was in Television, had some bit parts in Irwin Allen productions lol.

[j.razor]

Are you okay ?, do you need some kind of help ?, mental health is a real issue and shouldn't be ignored.

But really to counter your argument with your own perspective, you never saw Robinson or Ali fight, does that mean that they should be excluded in the argument for the "Best of ALL TIME" or should the debate only originate from when you was born ?.

No cuz there is film out of them fighters back then & it don't look good....Today people don't even watch the fighters of today, they just watch a fight or two then come with there B.S. list.

Now I don't have a mental health issue, you just lack in Boxing IQ which should be ignored.

[j.razor]

You know you might want to invest some time and look through Youtube. Not only are there plenty of these fights that one NEVER Could see, but commentary, comparison, etc.

I have & Floyd is T.B.E.

[j.razor]

Robinson, and it isn't even close.

Ali gets recognized for being "The Greatest" because he labeled himself as such. Back in the 1970s, television was a very powerful and influential platform. Screaming "I am the greatest" into Howard Cosell's microphone and having Cosell and other sports writers advocating such nonsense, convinced a very large and casual fanbase that he was in fact "The Greatest". Very similar to a "TBE" moniker that has stuck with the casual fanbase.

When breaking down Ali's career, there were a lot of things that worked to his favor in order to (a) make a lot of money for a lot of people and (b) revive boxing from it's dormancy in the 1960s. Two fixed fights with Liston, a win over an injured and much smaller Patterson, gift decisions versus Norton, Young, Shavers, and Chuvalo II, opponents who were often much smaller, all contributed greatly to his success.

Yes, he was a fast HW with a great chin. But, there were a lot of factors that led to his success and the media's love affair with Ali which helped seal his legacy.

Contrast that with Robison, who flourished in pre-Civil Rights era America. Never KO'd on his back in 200 fights. Only one TKO loss due to heat exhaustion while moving up in weight (he was ahead on the cards). Fought the most of the best of his era while they were at their best and had a career that spanned two decades and 200 fights. In his first 129 fights he only suffered one loss to LaMotta on his 41st fight, and went on to win 88 consecutive fights over 8 years after that loss.

The only criticism you can levy upon Robinson was his refusal to face any of the black murderer's row of fighters who could never get a shot at him...Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Jack Chase, Lloyd Marshall, et al.

I'm not a casual. "Pretty Boy" Floyd "Money" Mayweather is T.B.E.

He's so great that he has two nicknames. If you want to count T.B.E. then that's 3 nicknames.

[john l]

ill take sugar 128-1-2 with about 80 kos after his 1st 12 years.only loss was to guy he beat 5 times.he also won newspaper dec in both draws and got revenge their too,beat one of then 2wice by dec the other guy he only beat once.but it was in 55 sec.i just think that's fukin crazy.and all loss and draws were wiyh middleweights when he was still fightin 147.

[billeau2]

No cuz there is film out of them fighters back then & it don't look good....Today people don't even watch the fighters of today, they just watch a fight or two then come with there B.S. list.

Now I don't have a mental health issue, you just lack in Boxing IQ which should be ignored.

It not JUST "film being out there" and looking good or bad imbecile! Its great we have film, wish it had been around so freely when I was a kid... Commentary allows one to see a focus, even if one disagrees. But more to the point my friend... Most people do not know what they are watching, they simply say it is "good, bad" or "this guy looks slow" (the filming lol). You have to account for the different filming techniques, the different speeds of the film and pull out, pay attention to things which may appear as small details in the big picture at first and not be an imbecile.

Its like looking at a microscope and trying to see things without knowing what to look for. One thing you will see if yu know what you are watching are things fighters do/did. Its not just a question of what looks better, but you know all that right?

[GhostofDempsey]

I'm not a casual. "Pretty Boy" Floyd "Money" Mayweather is T.B.E.

He's so great that he has two nicknames. If you want to count T.B.E. then that's 3 nicknames.

I see you're trolling hard today. Stop shooting the Prozac, just take it as prescribed.

[j.razor]

Floyd is one of the best fighters of all time, no question, but he's not the best. He was the best businessman of all time, but he picked and choosed his opponents for years.

Then go through all the top fighters in history & how many Hall Of Famers did they beat? Who has the most highest quality of opponents on their resume?? Who has been undefeated for 20 years??? Who gets hit the least of all time???? Who is the most accurate of all time????? Which boxer has beat boxing???????