Hagler vs Monzon

[billeau2]

To figure out how Marv would fight Monzon, we merely have to figure out what the talk would have been.

Hmmm...

The part in the talk that would have rasped and rattled ol' Marv is when they said he couldn't stay on the outside and win the fight. How many rounds would he have wasted trying to show up that dirty, disrespectful opinion?

He does not need to try and outbox Monzon at all, but he is likely to try anyway. He needs to flat out brawl against Monzon, get inside and work. A trench fight. I believe that is his proper approach.

Monzon and his long arms would like him outside all night, if he is willing to stay there. And ol' Marv might just cooperate, so he can show the world how much game he got and what kind of a talent he is. Monzon would fight hard to keep him on the outside, in case he was not cooperative, which shows clearly what the general game plan had ought to be.

That is a bad, bad weakness to drag around against other ATGs. I do not trust Marv's mentality in the biggest fights. He is apt to get swayed and bumped off the right game plan by something someone said. Even Hearns got the fight he thought he wanted, he just couldn't handle it, because he fought the perfect game plan for Marv, instead of making Marv work to get at him.

He should have been doing his bounce boxing against Duran, keeping the little man outside where he did not want to be. But he felt popular perception was that it would be cowardly of him against little ol' Duran. He had to chew him up to be a real man and great champ.

Though Marv won about 8-4 even on Jesus Christ's scorecard, he allowed Duran to give perhaps his greatest performance in showing everything he had, everything he could take, everything he had learned. Instead of the perception of himself he wanted, Marv proved that he could not chew Duran up like a used up lightweight and spit him out in a brawl. When it got down to the truth of war on the inside, Duran was slicker, his medicine bag of know-how and tricks was much deeper and fuller.

Then the Goldberg effect kicked into high gear. That always happens when the man expected to get killed at least makes it competitive.

Fight the fight your opponent does not want out of you. That is pretty basic. But Marv had failures here, 'cause he got affected all the time by what he thought was the popular perception of things. He was vulnerable to his own imagination.

The psychological edge, the intangibles would go to Monzon. I think you are absolutely right about that. Monzin was also a lot stronger than he looked and I don't know this but looked to be naturally bigger than Marv to my eyes. Im leaning towards Monzon.

It looks like the one common opponent they fought was Bennie Briscoe and both had similar outcomes. Both of these men fought tough hombres I don't know where this rumor started that competition was weak for either man.

[amuroray]

Monzon VIA UD. Monzon had more tools in his toolbox and had all the intangibles.


Haglar would have been broken by round 13

[The Old LefHook]

I don't think any middleweight "breaks," Hagler, they can just decision him or they can't. Monzon punches with about the same force. That means the fight would be like taking their own punches. I know Hagler can take his own punches, because he fought and beat many men with a harder punch. I do not know if Monzon can take his own punch, though. There is not enough information for a determination. I would say Monzon's competition was somewhat weaker than Marv's, not to say that it was actually weak, but simply not as strong as Marv's who, in fact, had a very strong ledger. Though I know better than to bet on the man who was not as fully tested , I will still go with Monzon by a hair.

Neither man was fast. Neither man is likely to fold or break. But if anyone does, my money would have to support the guy who endured by far the tougher fights, and was never hurt.

I do not think Monzon can hold Marvin off and keep him outside. Guess what? Monzon was one of those lanky, long armed lads who could do pretty well inside. What a fight! We know how tough Marvin was up to a certain threshold, but we do not know much about Monzon's threshold. I feel the injun boy had a tough brain.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Fight would be razor thin either way, their styles mesh into an action fight. I see monzon bombing shots from the outside and winning at a distant behind the jab, trying to push hagler backwards. But when hagler got inside the jab, he would do some serious damage.

I lean towards hagler, I think he is the more durable of the 2 and will win the battle of attrition

[Mexican_Puppet]

Hagler.

Monzón opposition it was too low

[Mexican_Puppet]

Duran was winning going into the 13th and that cat started at what, 124?

If Hagler was the real deal he would have ended Duran.

Imagine what RJJ in his prime at 154 would do to Morales at 154. He would have starched him and Morales might be the greatest Mexican fighter ever talent wise.

Not even RJJ, even Kelly Pavlik vs Morales at 160. Brutal slaying.

Duran was a big dude

[McNulty]

Duran was a big dude

Ehh. He was shorter than Mayweather. Dude just liked food and got fat. Pundits claim food was his greatest enemy.

[billeau2]

A thread like this has a lot of great commentary...and some great hypotheticals! We all made one assumption: that this would be a 15 round fight and you know why? BECAUSE without those last three championship rounds, the puncher does not have an equal chance, and serious will power and the ability to sustain technical excellence is not challenged. It sucks that we don't have 15 round fights anymore and as good as this fight would be, I don't even want to think about it as a 12 rounder.

[The Old LefHook]

A thread like this has a lot of great commentary...and some great hypotheticals! We all made one assumption: that this would be a 15 round fight and you know why? BECAUSE without those last three championship rounds, the puncher does not have an equal chance, and serious will power and the ability to sustain technical excellence is not challenged. It sucks that we don't have 15 round fights anymore and as good as this fight would be, I don't even want to think about it as a 12 rounder.

This is exactly right. Marciano would have been decisioned by Walcott, Hearns might have decisioned Leonard, and so many other changed results.

Isn't it nicely ironic that the word processor for a boxing forum underlines the word decisioned as a mistake in spelling?

[billeau2]

This is exactly right. Marciano would have been decisioned by Walcott, Hearns might have decisioned Leonard, and so many other changed results.

Isn't it nicely ironic that the word processor for a boxing forum underlines the word decisioned as a mistake in spelling?

Lol! Kind of like the Hebrew dietary association of america putting nutritional advice on the back of a Kishka container... Kishka is matza meal saturated with chicken fat (schmaltz).