HBO Vs SHOtime Who's Winning?

[JDD1]

Cable networks are not in the business of attracting PPV buyers. They are in the business
of attracting subscribers. They're supposed to make truckloads of money out of their Mayweather investment. So far, they haven't been pumping out non-PPV fights faster than subscribers expected.

I've been asking for a complete list of non PPV fight events that Showtime has produced since the Canelo/Mayweather. They're very few. HBO still beat them.

So this Showtime winning is complete BS. It's not true.

You must not be counting the fights they do on showtime extreme. Showtime just ponied up 1.75 mil for stevenson to fight fonfura and then they have the bhop /shumenov winner for later in the year. They just gave danny big money for his fight.

Either way they surely aren't going broke. Lets just hope both networks make quality fights from here on out.

[WilkinsOlajuwon]

I agree the fans are losing.
Shotime a few years back looked horrible quality wise everything wise and since mayweather went to the network is like a whole new channel quality better and now hbo looks how shotime looked a few years back..

Is hard to say which beef is hurting us more.. Promotional or the networks?

I disagree. Showtime didnt have the marquee names but they had great fights. They did it on budget and they aired some really good matchups.

Dont forget fights and fighters like the vazquez marquez "quadrilogy" or chico's big fights

[al-Xander]

You must not be counting the fights they do on showtime extreme. Showtime just ponied up 1.75 mil for stevenson to fight fonfura and then they have the bhop /shumenov winner for later in the year. They just gave danny big money for his fight.

Either way they surely aren't going broke. Lets just hope both networks make quality fights from here on out.

I'm counting everything. Can't you just show me a list and compare it with HBO so we can settle this clearly? I am telling you that HBO still beat them. At the end of last year HBO was able to pump out fights every weekend, which SHO wasn't able to do.

[Hougigo]

That was a surprisingly enjoyable card, maybe it was because I had zero expectations. I am keeping my expectations in check for this card also (which I tend to find helps me enjoy cards).

I certainly don't like the way things are going because competition has been good, HBO coming up lame is not helping that short run. That said it can lead to more positive outcomes, say ESPN decides to get heavily involved in boxing I find that a stretch but it is possible as they need quality live sports and boxing can fill holes in a schedule very easily. It also may be better because HBO has always had this attitude that they are best and they don't need to play ball with anyone else (which is hilarious when I consider that Time Warner/HBO is working with CBS/Showtime for March Madness that they couldn't work on boxing more closely together) other networks like ESPN, Fox, NBC would probably be much more willing to come together and make the sport work a bit better (possibly)

For them, I think it'll come down to budget and money. I don't think they'll ever get any of the big fights with the big names because the price tag that'll come with it. Golvokin is in a good position because he's a fairly big name and compared to his counterparts who bring in numbers just as big, he's very cheap.... but that could all change against Chavez Jr.

ESPN for now, they'll look for what they can afford or entertaining diamonds in the rough. They seem to want to invest in it, so I think if they got money to throw, they can put on a decent card with kovalev or Golovkin.....if HBO allows it that is. Both men got that exclusive contract that gives them their U.S distribution rights.

The other promoters like King, Duva and Lou could try to get their fighters on there. Stage isn't as big, but helluva lot more viewers on ESPN than HBO. Pay might be less, but huge exposure in regular ESPN.

[JDD1]

I'm counting everything. Can't you just show me a list and compare it with HBO so we can settle this clearly? I am telling you that HBO still beat them. At the end of last year HBO was able to pump out fights every weekend, which SHO wasn't able to do.

Thats in part because they put on fights when HBO didn't in the earlier part of the year.

Using your reasoning, SHowtime would be winning because, as poster Houggio pointed out, HBO has no fights for 6 weeks during which time showtime has at least one big card. Added to that, HBO's big non ppv of the year-Kovalev v stevenson-is gone.

If you prefer HBO to showtime, cool. Its silly to argue over networks. Its also silly to think showtime is going bankrupt when they have CBS behind them.

[al-Xander]

To be fair, if the number of SHO subscribers is growing, it's certainly not because of boxing. Boxing is rare. So if you're thinking of starting a subscription because of boxing, don't. Just find a way to watch them somewhere, your neighbor or something, friends who watch Homeland, etc.

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"They have a guy [Stephen Espinoza] in charge of Showtime Sports, he signed Mayweather; if you're a subscriber for Showtime, what the hell difference does it mean to you? Mayweather isn't on Showtime, he's on pay-per-view. If you have a subscription, you can't see a Mayweather fight on Showtime. It's ridiculous." - BA

[The Gambler1981]

For them, I think it'll come down to budget and money. I don't think they'll ever get any of the big fights with the big names because the price tag that'll come with it. Golvokin is in a good position because he's a fairly big name and compared to his counterparts who bring in numbers just as big, he's very cheap.... but that could all change against Chavez Jr.

ESPN for now, they'll look for what they can afford or entertaining diamonds in the rough. They seem to want to invest in it, so I think if they got money to throw, they can put on a decent card with kovalev or Golovkin.....if HBO allows it that is. Both men got that exclusive contract that gives them their U.S distribution rights.

The other promoters like King, Duva and Lou could try to get their fighters on there. Stage isn't as big, but helluva lot more viewers on ESPN than HBO. Pay might be less, but huge exposure in regular ESPN.

ESPN has gone as far with boxing on a budget as you can go, and they have done a solid job. It really comes down to if they see an opportunity worth taking, but they way boxing works they could plug in a big fight night every so often and not really blink at that cost as long as they cold pull advertisers but I don't think that would be a huge issue for ESPN.

You can even drop down a rung on the sports station ladder to like NBCSN or FS1 I think those networks are the ones that will end up really paying for boxing because ESPN has their main iden****** (and while boxing has always been a part of ESPN no one thinks of ESPN when thinking boxing) while FS1 and NBCSN need to find theirs and there are only so many sports that can attract an audience that are even available.

It does suck for right now though and any transition like that will take a good while to fully replace what is and has been lost.

[TheRebelSin]

I'm a look for the list of fights and results to post em in a few unless someone beats me to it.

[al-Xander]

I assume this is not a complete list. But this is very telling enough. Showtime is far from winning.



What I'm interested in is the impact of these Mayweather PPVs on Showtime. Whether they're making tons of money from them, which was obviously their goal, to be able to produce more non-PPV fights.

So look for the list of non PPV fights that were produced AFTER the Canelo/Mayweather PPV. Then compare it with HBO on the same period.

[Jloro]

Showtime is cruising to a UD, maybe even a late TKO unless HBO lands some bombs