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Old 05-29-2020, 04:47 AM #121
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The ring size was very small. Zach Clayton was a very experienced referee and he stated that ring was the smallest he ever worked in. “Postage stamp size”. The ropes were for a much larger ring and thus the sag. Dundee stated right after the bout and decades later he never loosened the ropes. He feverishly tried to tighten the ropes in between round however.

Foreman stated himself that his excuses, drugs, loose ropes etc were just him trying to justify his loss to Ali. In reality Ali was a big heavyweight and their was just so many right hands he could take.

There was really nothing George could do to beat Ali that night. A great boxer beat the great puncher as did Young a few years later. As is the case throughout boxing history many times great boxers are a great punchers Kryptonite. George fought two great boxers in his prime. Both beat him going away. Foreman won very few rounds against Ali or Young.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:45 PM #122
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- -Prefight negotiations:

Ali wanted a 20', George wanted 18', so they commissioned Everlast to custom build a 19' ring and shipped it to Zaire.

Only thing postage stamp is your IQ that allows you to believe whatever it is you make up. Dundee and Bundini lossened the ropes like they tried to do to Frazier at MSG before Teddy Brenner caught them red handed and kicked them out until the fight.

The fight was delayed near 6 Wks after George suspiciously cut open in sparring with an elbow. Dick Sadler was a turncoat who had been working in the Ali camp setting up the fight before Zaire.

George could only run and smash up the heavy bag. Meanwhile Ali been specifically training to lay and sit on the loose ropes. In fact, even in prime undefeated itineration he was known primarily for that in sparring. He could never be taught strategy by Dundee any more than his teachers in HS could, the reason he ditched Archie Moore early on.

Dundee could only make suggestions and hope Ali might remember at critical moments. Dundee main task was setting up camp, running interference with the ref and officials, and tricks like breaking out now illegal smelling salts like when Cooper deposited him on his posterior.

Yup, the way it was!
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:36 PM #123
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Nope. The wrong ring was sent to Zaire but the correct ropes. This is why the ropes sagged. Clayton stated that ring was the smallest he ever worked. “Like a postage stamp”.

Regarding Foreman’s inability to handle boxers if you add up the rounds Foreman won on the official scorecards from both his bouts with Ali and Young it’s about 25%. Not good. As the case for most devastating punchers in heavyweight boxing history great boxers were Foreman’s kryptonite.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:37 PM #124
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Originally Posted by QueensburyRules View Post
- -Prefight negotiations:

Ali wanted a 20', George wanted 18', so they commissioned Everlast to custom build a 19' ring and shipped it to Zaire.

Only thing postage stamp is your IQ that allows you to believe whatever it is you make up. Dundee and Bundini lossened the ropes like they tried to do to Frazier at MSG before Teddy Brenner caught them red handed and kicked them out until the fight.

The fight was delayed near 6 Wks after George suspiciously cut open in sparring with an elbow. Dick Sadler was a turncoat who had been working in the Ali camp setting up the fight before Zaire.

George could only run and smash up the heavy bag. Meanwhile Ali been specifically training to lay and sit on the loose ropes. In fact, even in prime undefeated itineration he was known primarily for that in sparring. He could never be taught strategy by Dundee any more than his teachers in HS could, the reason he ditched Archie Moore early on.

Dundee could only make suggestions and hope Ali might remember at critical moments. Dundee main task was setting up camp, running interference with the ref and officials, and tricks like breaking out now illegal smelling salts like when Cooper deposited him on his posterior.

Yup, the way it was!
Dundee never 'owned' a piece of Ali (contract wise) he was paid a cash fee. (Although a bunch of others did own a piece of Ali.)

That's why Dundee worked Ellis' corner and not Ali's. Dundee got a piece of Jimmy's purse which was considerably more than what he would have made working with Ali, for that fight.

They say Dundee offered to stay with Ali, but Ali insisted that Dundee go with Ellis and take the bigger money.

P.S. They also say that the brothers Petronelli offered to forgo their end for the Leonard fight, but Hagler insisted they take their cut. Classy guy!
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Old 05-29-2020, 06:47 PM #125
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Here is an interview with an older Foreman. Note he states his accusations right after the fight of being drugged and loose ropes were just excuses and that his bout with Ali was a “fair fight”.

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Old 05-30-2020, 04:11 AM #126
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Originally Posted by HOUDINI563 View Post
Here is an interview with an older Foreman. Note he states his accusations right after the fight of being drugged and loose ropes were just excuses and that his bout with Ali was a “fair fight”.

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- -George well noted for mysteriously contradicting himself in the middle of a single HBO fight.

U, however remain untutored in your little porkies blankie that keeps U warm and safe from ring and otherwise national riots.
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:09 AM #127
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Sorry, you stated Foreman never said it. He certainly did at least twice.

Zack Clayton stated that the ring was the smallest he had ever worked in “like a postage stamp”.
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:21 AM #128
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NYT September 13th 1926

Ring Size: Dempsey-Tunney I

The last sentence suggest it was contentious.

(Including permanently attached but disappearing spit buckets and stools. I would like to have seen what that looked like.)


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Old 05-30-2020, 11:33 AM #129
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I have a difficult time accepting any fighter, manger, or promoter's quote as proof of anything.

No one in prize fighting ever speaks in measured words; every statement is one of hyperbole.

No one in boxing is ever going to say: "Well the ring was kind of on the small size." -- No, it's always going to come out "the smallest ever."

When these wags get to promoting themselves, no matter what happens it is always going to be expressed as being ALL one thing, or ALL the other thing.

All these quotes have to be taken with a gain of salt, not assumed that they are proof of anything.
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Old 05-30-2020, 12:26 PM #130
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Clayton was one of only three men who were in that ring every second from pre opening bell to past the 10 count knockout. He was also a very experienced referee. If he stated that the ring was small...the ring was small. If he further elaborated that it was the smallest ring he ever worked in...the ring was small. These expert eye witness statements lend great evidence and credibility to the statements made by others that the ropes sagged due to a mismatch of ring and rope size. Also the difficulty Dundee had of tightening the ropes in between rounds. They never appeared very tight at any point during the fight.

Also the ring canvas was very padded, a so called punchers ring canvas. This was another reason Ali ditched moving side to side completely after round one. At the start of round two Ali immediately backed up directly onto the ropes. From that point on to round 6 Ali primarily punched off of the ropes. After round 5/6 Ali began sidestepped to his left picking Foreman off with his jab.

Bottom line ring conditions that night favored the puncher not the boxer.
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