Ali vs. Foreman fight -- enlight me, please...

[QueensburyRules]

It is a myth that George Foreman was beating Muhammad Ali up, it is also irrelevant on how Zach Clayton scored the fight.

I can remember watching the 'When We Where kings' documentary as a kid. And my perception from viewing that documentary was that Muhammad Ali was basically beaten up for the large majority of the fight. 'It was not until I watched the entire fight, did I realize that the notion that Ali was being beat up by Foreman was a complete myth'.

The fight was a technical master class, on how to fight off the ropes from Muhammad Ali.

Note: Muhammad Ali was a notorious lazy trainer, and anybody who knows anything about is career, will understand that he trained to the level of his opponents or the perceived threat 'He probably viewed Chuck Wepner as a easy fight'. During the 70's even though Muhammad Ali cemented his greatness, people need to remember that he was different fighter in terms of his attitude to the sport. George Foreman struck some fear into him, which motivated him to train etc

Muhammad Ali's extreme self confidence was his strength, but it could also back fire upon him'.

- -The myth is you can't figure up from down or even watched the fight.

Ali didn't float down in a golden cloud for a little jab and tap dance before returning to the heavens for R&R. He was visibly weaker after George to struggle those last few years, really stinking out the ring in some as he took smaller purses than the $5mil George rematch.

[smeck]

- -I've never seen the post fight footage you talk of, but most assuredly in 1974 men were still men and not collapsable bawling sissies. Ali was taken to the brink. He literally created a hole in the crowd who had been hoisting him 6' in the air.

Ali spouting off Allah ain't some new revelation. Ring released an anniversary edition of the postfight 74 edition that supports everything I've said as does the Playboy interview.

You can see the post-fight footage on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55AasOJZzDE

59 minutes in, he's looking lively on the way to the dressing room, and then starts going all Allah on David Frost. I don't recall Ali ever doing that after a fight. In real life, yes.

Before that, you can also see that he was down (amid the insane mob in that overcrowded ring) for a few seconds, but was up again waving and carrying on, and when he left the ring, still playing to the crowd.

It's possible Ali felt George was more powerful as a rematch threat than Frazier or Norton, even if Joe knocked him down and Norton broke his jaw.

[PRINCEKOOL]

- -The myth is you can't figure up from down or even watched the fight.

Ali didn't float down in a golden cloud for a little jab and tap dance before returning to the heavens for R&R. He was visibly weaker after George to struggle those last few years, really stinking out the ring in some as he took smaller purses than the $5mil George rematch.

I am well aware that Muhammad Ali was visible weaker after the George Foreman fight, his fight vs Joe Frazier in manila was probably the last of Muhammad Ali 'In terms of him being a very capable heavyweight'. I highly doubt there on after that, if he was fighting in today's heavyweight division 'He would of past any medicals' or awarded a license to fight.

I will still reiterate, that it is a complete myth that George Foreman was beating him up. Joe Frazier & Ken Norton both punished Muhammad Ali more so, than Foreman ever did 'The Zaire fight was a master class, complete genius from Muhammad Ali'.

[QueensburyRules]

- -He weren't weaker without cause, ie George that accumulated with Wepner, Joe, et al.

Ali came back strong after Frazier 1, but he was still prime, yet sometime still susceptible to bad performances against Mathis and Lubbers for reasons unknown.

[PRINCEKOOL]

- -He weren't weaker without cause, ie George that accumulated with Wepner, Joe, et al.

Ali came back strong after Frazier 1, but he was still prime, yet sometime still susceptible to bad performances against Mathis and Lubbers for reasons unknown.

Muhammad Ali was not in his prime during the 70's, we never got to see Muhammad Ali's true potential. 'Classic opinion is that he was in his prime just before he got his license took away, I disagree' He was still a evolving fighter at that stage.

Muhammad Ali was a lazy trainer, and trained to the perceived threat of his opponent' Some of his lack luster performances in my opinion was down to his attitude towards training, and extreme self/ Over Confidence'.

[Longhaul]

- -So he went out to secure more brain damage to stink up the ring against a club fighter, Wepner whom George KOed years before?

BRILLIANT!!!

He unlike Foreman stayed busy and fought the third Frazier fight the thrilla in Manila .Ali fought four times in 75 while Foreman never made it the gym.It was a decisive no controversy win and the public was calling for the third Frazier fight.Blaming Ali for foreman’s mental breakdown and ballooning weight and lack of desire to train is ridiculous.After a one sided defeat nobody was looking for a immediate rematch everyone wanted the third Frazier fight.You are probably to young or were not born and are relying on internet articles and opinions.

[PRINCEKOOL]

He unlike Foreman stayed busy and fought the third Frazier fight the thrilla in Manila .Ali fought four times in 75 while Foreman never made it the gym.It was a decisive no controversy win and the public was calling for the third Frazier fight.Blaming Ali for foreman’s mental breakdown and ballooning weight and lack of desire to train is ridiculous.After a one sided defeat nobody was looking for a immediate rematch everyone wanted the third Frazier fight.You are probably to young or were not born and are relying on internet articles and opinions.

What we should of seen is George Foreman vs Larry Holmes.

I agree with your post, Muhammad Ali done a complete job upon George Foreman 'Destroyed his entire imagine & aura of invincibility' INSIDE Foreman's very own mind, I am not even referring to other fighters suddenly be-leaving that they could beat Foreman.

Even before the fight Muhammad Ali from a technical perspective told people how he would hit Foreman, and also mocked his offensive abilities. 'Not only was Foreman physical beaten up in Zaire, he suffered psychological/emotional trauma'.

When George Foreman fought Michael Moorer, and according to Teddy Atlas he was adamant that the new George Foreman in persona was all a act.

I have not a watched all of this interview, but Ali at some point reassures people that he can deal with Foreman's power. 'Watched the interview awhile back, I think it is the same footage'.

[QueensburyRules]

Muhammad Ali was not in his prime during the 70's, we never got to see Muhammad Ali's true potential. 'Classic opinion is that he was in his prime just before he got his license took away, I disagree' He was still a evolving fighter at that stage.

Muhammad Ali was a lazy trainer, and trained to the perceived threat of his opponent' Some of his lack luster performances in my opinion was down to his attitude towards training, and extreme self/ Over Confidence'.

- -Ali lazy way of training on him, but in 1970 he turned 28.

Now I realize soft lads ain't gonna experience any difference between 24 and 44 other than weight gain offset by hair loss, but when I was 28 I was invincible in spite of having overcome debilitating injury.

You making Ali into another soft lad ain't doing much for his greatness. I could be doing a better job of promoting him than you that is the biggest prob with Ali supporters, and no mistake, as a kid Ali was The Man until I grew up and started figuring things.

[PRINCEKOOL]

- -Ali lazy way of training on him, but in 1970 he turned 28.

Now I realize soft lads ain't gonna experience any difference between 24 and 44 other than weight gain offset by hair loss, but when I was 28 I was invincible in spite of having overcome debilitating injury.

You making Ali into another soft lad ain't doing much for his greatness. I could be doing a better job of promoting him than you that is the biggest prob with Ali supporters, and no mistake, as a kid Ali was The Man until I grew up and started figuring things.

It is common knowledge that Muhammad Ali during the 1970's trained to the level or the perceived threat of his opponents. 'In comparison to Floyd Mayweather his attitude's towards training was quite lazy at times, this is no myth' Ali was his own boss, Angelo Dundee was his head coach.

All of this is common knowledge, we never really seen the peak or ceiling of Muhammad Ali's true potential ever 'In terms of boxing ability' but we did see his true potential in terms of 'Courage, Bravery and toughness' inside of the ring & outside of the ring.

Muhammad Ali concurred physical reality.

[QueensburyRules]

You can see the post-fight footage on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55AasOJZzDE

59 minutes in, he's looking lively on the way to the dressing room, and then starts going all Allah on David Frost. I don't recall Ali ever doing that after a fight. In real life, yes.

Before that, you can also see that he was down (amid the insane mob in that overcrowded ring) for a few seconds, but was up again waving and carrying on, and when he left the ring, still playing to the crowd.

It's possible Ali felt George was more powerful as a rematch threat than Frazier or Norton, even if Joe knocked him down and Norton broke his jaw.

- -Been a while, and I must say that may be the clearest, most complete version yet, so much thanks.

It's an epic fight on many different level and Ali pulled it out with the perfect combo.

My criticism is for Zach Clayton mid 50s refereeing two studs after a 2 yr absence from his last fight reffing two flywts. He kept breaking them prematurely where we coulda seen some real stuff.

Nice to hear motormouth Fat Bob Sheridan stumble trying keep up with the action. Let's face it, Ali was the good guy Vietnam draft dodger redeemed by the Supremes and the Public, and George the surly bad boy curt with the press over their incessant, repeating, leading questions and only wanted to be leaving the hellhole he had been held hostage at gunpoint.