Theory on how to beat a Cus D'Amato style fighter...

[Mintcar923]

Apparently you missed round 9.


Peter McNeeley isn't exactly Smokin' Joe, now is he? Is that really the best example you could come up with? Did Tyson even face another pressure fighter in his career?


He wasn't moving his head because of Douglas' excellent lateral movement, superb use of range, and most importantly, his willingness to actually throw combinations at Tyson. Douglas MADE Tyson look off his best.

Quick Tillis didn't do anything but jab and move, and he was robbed out of at least a draw by NY judges.

In the Douglas bout, he was also clearly going backward toward the end of round 8 when he went against the ropes. As far as your comment on Buster's masterful boxing skills. Everyone knows Mike was not at his best during the whole training for the fight. He was not focused and had even been downed in sparring. He wasn't moving his head much because he didn't train as he should've!

Holyfield was clearly pressuring Mike in both fights and I recall him going back toward the ropes as early as round 2. Lennox Lewis and Danny Williams pressured him, as well. Even though Mike had that injury in the Williams fight, when he went back in the 4th it was all over.

[jabsRstiff]

In the Douglas bout, he was also clearly going backward toward the end of round 8 when he went against the ropes. As far as your comment on Buster's masterful boxing skills. Everyone knows Mike was not at his best during the whole training for the fight. He was not focused and had even been downed in sparring. He wasn't moving his head much because he didn't train as he should've!

Holyfield was clearly pressuring Mike in both fights and I recall him going back toward the ropes as early as round 2. Lennox Lewis and Danny Williams pressured him, as well. Even though Mike had that injury in the Williams fight, when he went back in the 4th it was all over.

Sory, Mint....but Douglas clearly won that bout by boxing and outclassing Tyson. He backed him up after he dissected him. You are way, way off on this one and I'm not sure what your agenda is.

Mike got that ass beat very badly in that fight....'cause he was a stubby dude in with a 6'4" 231lb guy who was boxing like lightning.

[SBleeder]

Everyone knows Mike was not at his best during the whole training for the fight. He was not focused and had even been downed in sparring. He wasn't moving his head much because he didn't train as he should've!

No, I don't know that at all. I wasn't there to watch him train, and the stories of his lack of focus in camp didn't start to surface until well after his defeat.

And even Marvin Hagler has been knocked down in sparring.

[Daddy T]

No, I don't know that at all. I wasn't there to watch him train, and the stories of his lack of focus in camp didn't start to surface until well after his defeat.

oh please Give it a rest, don't even try to argue that the Mike that faced Douglas was anything other than a shadow of the real Mike, not in this section anyway. I thought you were a half decent poster ... obviously I was wrong. You almost seem to have some sort of Tyson bashing agenda here. Unless your George Foreman standing toe to toe with prime Mike and trying to force him back is nothing but stupidity and doing little other than playing into his hands. And for Mint please don't mention the lewis or Williams fights I may as well use the Marciano fight to devise a blue print on how to beat a prime Joe Louis.

[CarlosG815]

oh please Give it a rest, don't even try to argue that the Mike that faced Douglas was anything other than a shadow of the real Mike, not in this section anyway. I thought you were a half decent poster ... obviously I was wrong. You almost seem to have some sort of Tyson bashing agenda here. Unless your George Foreman standing toe to toe with prime Mike and trying to force him back is nothing but stupidity and doing little other than playing into his hands. And for Mint please don't mention the lewis or Williams fights I may as well use the Marciano fight to devise a blue print on how to beat a prime Joe Louis.

You must be kidding. The guy is a joke.

[CarlosG815]

Apparently you missed round 9.


Peter McNeeley isn't exactly Smokin' Joe, now is he? Is that really the best example you could come up with? Did Tyson even face another pressure fighter in his career?


He wasn't moving his head because of Douglas' excellent lateral movement, superb use of range, and most importantly, his willingness to actually throw combinations at Tyson. Douglas MADE Tyson look off his best.

Quick Tillis didn't do anything but jab and move, and he was robbed out of at least a draw by NY judges.

I saw round 9. So you are of the opinion that seconds of a single round account for the pace of the entire fight? You would have to be stupid to think that Tyson was not the aggressor for the entire fight. He never stopped moving forward. Buster himself said that he was impressed with how Mike never stopped coming forward. Despite the punishment, Buster commented that "He never stopped moving in."

I mentioned McNeely because he is a classic example of a guy who tried to bring the pressure, and others had already been listed so why would I list them again? And so you are of the opinion that in order to determine how a fighter deals with pressure is to fight Smoking Joe? Nobody else can apply pressure? You're too dense when it comes to Tyson. Your hatred toward the fact that he is beloved and seen as great by many has blinded you.

And he wasn't moving his head because at this point in his career he hadn't done so in years.

It is a fact that his head movement was null post Kevin Rooney. You want to debate that? I don't have the time. Watch the film with your eyes open and you will see what everybody else in this section sees. You think you are special by going against the grain of what everybody thinks. As if you have a keen eye for the sport that others lack and that you see things that we miss. You don't - you're not special, as a matter of fact you are quite ignorant when it comes to the history of this sport and great fighters such as Mike Tyson.

Tillis should have gotten a draw? Find another hobby. Boxing history is not for you.

[Ray Corso]

Basicly Cus's style is to use side to side motion bending at the waist to move from side to side. Combinations are thrown off of the moves and a defense is naturally incorperated into these moves too!
My kids from my gym fought against Cus's kids (Holyoke Boys Club Mass. Region One USA/ABF Tourny) and a gym from up state NY that incorperated Cus's methods also. (alot of Adarandk sp. Indian kids) who were all tuff kids! They moved forward and looked to get under punches and counter. The kids that were most difficult were the ones that used their jabs first and then moved under. If you remember when Tyson used a double jab he was at his best!!
What I did against that style was ALWAYS be first and use laterial movement, if the opponent had no answers for the laterial motion then the bout was easy! If they handled it (kids who could jab back) we would then use a double jab and punch the sides as hard as possible mostly on their left side (most were left hook crazy) when successful they will "stand up"!! Thats when Cus's style can get very vunerable. He taught how to step off to the side when pressure comes but the most natural move is to back up because you can still "see" your opponent more clearly. This is a natural reaction that needs to be trained out of a boxers mind because stepping over left to right leads to no balance and the best opportunity to hurt your opponent. Body shots needed to be off the jabs then head combinations in case the judges missed the body work as most amatuer judges did and still do.
The kids were tuff but didn't have the experience other kids from Hartford or Springfield had because there weren't many shows up state NY so mosdt of them faded in the third round but the Indian kids up there were tuff as nails and fought very hard. I liked them kids they showed no fear and often lost decisions but never hung their heads because they gave everything they had!
Ray.

[res]

Lateral movement and uppercuts in the obvious answer.

Easier said than done though.

[CarlosG815]

Lateral movement and uppercuts in the obvious answer.

Easier said than done though.

I couldn't agree more. Even at his absolute best Tyson would have struggled with Douglas that night, as I always thought Buster at his best was actually a better version of Riddick Bowe with more speed and a better jab to set up an overhand right.

Box, move, solid jab, followed by a right hand. But the key is moving. If you can't move, Tyson could time your punches and come up from underneath very fast and land a big shot. Guys like Buster are able to box and move and that is very problematic for a fighter like Tyson because getting the opponent where you want him is very difficult if he's being kept at bay with a jab.

[Mintcar923]

oh please Give it a rest, don't even try to argue that the Mike that faced Douglas was anything other than a shadow of the real Mike, not in this section anyway. I thought you were a half decent poster ... obviously I was wrong. You almost seem to have some sort of Tyson bashing agenda here. Unless your George Foreman standing toe to toe with prime Mike and trying to force him back is nothing but stupidity and doing little other than playing into his hands. And for Mint please don't mention the lewis or Williams fights I may as well use the Marciano fight to devise a blue print on how to beat a prime Joe Louis.

To clear this up, I never said Mike was anywhere close to his prime when he lost to Lewis and Williams but he was pressured and they both forced him back...