P4P rankings and weight classes

[Contra]

Recent and upcoming fights raise the issue.

If a dude goes up a weight class and gets beat, but can still make the lower weight and dominate, how does this really affect their p4p rankings?

If Choco could make 112 again, and obliterates all competition, does he stay on the list?

If Canelo loses to Golov, but goes back to 154 and beats better opponents in a more impressive manner, does that mean he's better, p4p?


Where is the line between size and skill?

Is a fighter judged by the lowest weight class he can make, or the weight class in which he is the most effective?


Also, seems like a lot of posters need a reminder about what p4p really means.

Simply put, one boxer would beat another if they were the same size. Nothing more, nothing less. Styles don't guarantee victory.


Discuss.

[Contra]

Crawford going to welter is another good example.

Let's say he looks lackluster for a couple of fights and then gets beaten by a bigger fighter, but then goes back to 140 and dominates...

Is his place on the p4p determined by his fights at welter, or by his fights at 135 and 140?

[Vlad_]

p4p rankings are fantasies that make no sense at all. Loma or Rigo at LHW would be totally different fighters, just like Joshua or Ali, at middleweight, would be totally different fighters.

[Larry the boss]

why are we making excuses for boxers who just are not talented enough when fighters in the past did far more and succeeded?

[Larry the boss]

Just call a spade a spade..the guy just isnt as talented as the real top p4p elite fighters

[Contra]

why are we making excuses for boxers who just are not talented enough when fighters in the past did far more and succeeded?

Because weight classes are a thing?

Gennady beating Floyd at 154 (a division where Floyd was the man at one point) wouldn't mean that Golovkin was a better fighter p4p, because that's not May's ideal weight.

Same with Charlo. If he is a beast at 154, but gets obliterated at MW, and goes back to SWW, is his p4p rank only affected by his body of work at his ideal weight.

Prime vs past-prime is kind of the same way.

A prime Tyson would have possibly killed a past prime Ali in the ring, but that doesn't mean he's higher on an ATG list.

[Symmetry]

p4p rankings are fantasies that make no sense at all. Loma or Rigo at LHW would be totally different fighters, just like Joshua or Ali, at middleweight, would be totally different fighters.

I completely agree with you, but well let's have some fantasies.

I think it's an interesting question that i thought about but never had the perfect answer. Maybe it's related on how they lose (if they do) in a superior weight class. If we take Chocolatito, his first loss was not mainly because of the weight (of course it affected) but because he doesn't boxed so good than other times. In his second loss he seem completely lost mentaly.
What i mean is that if you go up in weight and you perform at the same level as before but with less KO power and a not so good chin that can be because of the weight (like Chocolatito vs Estrada and Cuadras were he fighted well), against Rungvisai it was not only a weight issue, so that affects his P4P ranking, which for me was not affected vs Cuadras and Estrada even if he doesn't looked as mighty as before (because of the weight as i said).

[JJRod]

Recent and upcoming fights raise the issue.

If a dude goes up a weight class and gets beat, but can still make the lower weight and dominate, how does this really affect their p4p rankings?

If Choco could make 112 again, and obliterates all competition, does he stay on the list?

If Canelo loses to Golov, but goes back to 154 and beats better opponents in a more impressive manner, does that mean he's better, p4p?


Where is the line between size and skill?

Is a fighter judged by the lowest weight class he can make, or the weight class in which he is the most effective?


Also, seems like a lot of posters need a reminder about what p4p really means.

Simply put, one boxer would beat another if they were the same size. Nothing more, nothing less. Styles don't guarantee victory.


Discuss.

I guess it would depend on the situation.
Was the guy moving up for a one time daring to be great fight? Or was he moving up because he cleaned up the division and couldn't make weight comfortably anymore?

If he was moving up several weight classes in a dare to be great move and lost, i.e Ward moving up to HW to fight Joshua, I say he keeps his p4p status.

If he moves up in weight because he can no longer make the previous weight i.e Garcia moving from 130 to 135 and loses, then he should lose p4p votes.

[Symmetry]

I guess it would depend on the situation.
Was the guy moving up for a one time daring to be great fight? Or was he moving up because he cleaned up the division and couldn't make weight comfortably anymore?

If he was moving up several weight classes in a dare to be great move and lost, i.e Ward moving up to HW to fight Joshua, I say he keeps his p4p status.

If he moves up in weight because he can no longer make the previous weight i.e Garcia moving from 130 to 135 and loses, then he should lose p4p votes.

I agree, this is also important.

[Larry the boss]

Because weight classes are a thing?

Gennady beating Floyd at 154 (a division where Floyd was the man at one point) wouldn't mean that Golovkin was a better fighter p4p, because that's not May's ideal weight.

Same with Charlo. If he is a beast at 154, but gets obliterated at MW, and goes back to SWW, is his p4p rank only affected by his body of work at his ideal weight.

Prime vs past-prime is kind of the same way.

A prime Tyson would have possibly killed a past prime Ali in the ring, but that doesn't mean he's higher on an ATG list.

but you are making excuses for Roman who only moved up what 10 pounds? floyd moved up 24 damn pounds and didnt lose to anyone if you are elite you are elite