Who Could Roy Jones Not Have Beaten?

[young_robbed]

IMO, Hagler would have defeated him at 160. Maybe Sugar Ray Robinson at 160, as well. Gerald McClellan would have a definite shot to beat him.

[them_apples]

Dude, this is hard to read. I agree: Jones nut-huggers seriously over-exaggerate his abilities. Even Mayweather fans don't really claim he could clean out the titans of the Welterweight division. But you don't need to go the other way.

Bryant Brannon couldn't make it out of the 2nd Round, how do you expect the club fighters you named to fair any better? Ruben Carter? George Benton!? I love a Philly Cheesesteak as much as the next guy, but even if they're buying I'm not calling those guys live game against Jones. Maybe, just maybe, Joey Giardello on one of his good nights would out-box Jones. P4P he was the more skilled fighter. He could play spoiler to Jones.

But if you're talking about guys bringing the fight to the much bigger Jones, then you need to be talking about true ATGs. Guys like Valdez (the best fighter Monzon fought), Griffith, Dick Tiger, and the inimitable Mickey Walker would all be better choices for bringing the pressure against Jones. As much as I admire them all, I don't consider one a favorite. Hagler was too slow for the smaller Leonard, so it's hard to see him fairing any better against Jones.

Even Monzon, who would have been very evasive, might have been too upright against the bigger, faster Jones.

You consider Benton and Carter club fighters? those guys were serious fighters who were fighting in a serious time.

Jones was a good fighter but also a cherry picker. There are a lot of red flags over his wins. Now he is a very good fighter, it's obvious - but to be a great you need a fight that tests your greatness, he always stayed shy from that.

Hopkins was green and a rematch never happened. This was still probably his best win. Toney was struggling with weight issues by the time he got in with Jones. With those 2 out of the way, the rest were just resume fillers, having being koed by Tarver - but ill be fair coming back down in weight is always hard.

Carter was fighting serious tough contenders who came to take his head off and weren't scared ****less or unprepared for the big stage. Benton was just supremely skilled.

If a fighter doesn't pursue greatness he isn't great. Mayweather falls under the same category. Not saying I wouldn't do the same either if it made me more money, but it's either greatness or money. Fighters today like Mikey or Brooke sometimes go after greatness but inevitably fail because they aren't "great". they are just good.

While Ali was handing out rematches left and right and screaming to fight the top guys, Jones was making excuses.

[billeau2]

That's all you could muster?

Disappointing.

Anyway, you were put right.

That's all that matters.

It doesn't matter where Roy was ranked.

He was 3-3 in his previous 6, he hadn't had a top level win for exactly 5 years, and Joe had publicly dismissed him on several occasions beforehand. He was damaged goods. Which is the only reason Joe fought him.

Think you put Queenie right? ha! Queenie is determined...and this is against some very credible opposition (I might add)...to be this section's halfwit. The only way to guarantee this is to be a legitimate quarter wit! Because we have a few others who are chomping at that half wit designation.

Tinfoil hat? not that will fit that cone of queenies!

[robertzimmerman]

You consider Benton and Carter club fighters? those guys were serious fighters who were fighting in a serious time.

Jones was a good fighter but also a cherry picker. There are a lot of red flags over his wins. Now he is a very good fighter, it's obvious - but to be a great you need a fight that tests your greatness, he always stayed shy from that.

Hopkins was green and a rematch never happened. This was still probably his best win. Toney was struggling with weight issues by the time he got in with Jones. With those 2 out of the way, the rest were just resume fillers, having being koed by Tarver - but ill be fair coming back down in weight is always hard.

Carter was fighting serious tough contenders who came to take his head off and weren't scared ****less or unprepared for the big stage. Benton was just supremely skilled.

If a fighter doesn't pursue greatness he isn't great. Mayweather falls under the same category. Not saying I wouldn't do the same either if it made me more money, but it's either greatness or money. Fighters today like Mikey or Brooke sometimes go after greatness but inevitably fail because they aren't "great". they are just good.

While Ali was handing out rematches left and right and screaming to fight the top guys, Jones was making excuses.

Roy was not a cherry picker.

It's a complete myth that I've debunked time and again.

How were Hill, Griffin and Reggie Johnson just resume fillers?

How did he not pursue greatness?

He was a former MW who went to HW and back, and guys like Liles, Dariusz, Hopkins and Calzaghe had no intentions of fighting him when it would have meant something.

[robertzimmerman]

Think you put Queenie right? ha! Queenie is determined...and this is against some very credible opposition (I might add)...to be this section's halfwit. The only way to guarantee this is to be a legitimate quarter wit! Because we have a few others who are chomping at that half wit designation.

Tinfoil hat? not that will fit that cone of queenies!

I always put him right.

I do very much look forward to his responses though.

He makes me laugh.

I also look forward to your responses, but on a more serious note, as we have good debates.

[The Old LefHook]

Zimmerman, you can't even put yourself right. Still the might believer in glass Roy, are you?

[billeau2]

I always put him right.

I do very much look forward to his responses though.

He makes me laugh.

I also look forward to your responses, but on a more serious note, as we have good debates.

Queenie is good fun, not really like some prime Holes we have had here in the past. Agreed.

Lefty is in training because with Ray hopefully healing up, we have lost one of resident curmudgeons. Somebody has to take that slack up!

[robertzimmerman]

Zimmerman, you can't even put yourself right. Still the might believer in glass Roy, are you?

I've put you right many times too.

The only reply you could offer up, was that you weren't going to go over old ground. There was no old ground though. Because you couldn't refute any of what I said.

The strange thing with you, is that you've actually agreed with me regarding Joe Calzaghe's career. You agree that he was happy defending a lightly regarded WBO belt for years. Which is why I find it really puzzling that you criticise Roy for not trying harder to face him earlier. It makes no sense. It's like you're hating on Roy just because you have an issue with him.

[BattlingNelson]

And how would that have happened exactly?

What are you saying?

That if he'd have dropped the belts, suddenly the likes of Liles, Dariusz, Joe and Hopkins would suddenly have wanted to have fought him?

It's a fantasy.

Dude. Jones avoided the best for various reasons (that you in your man-love deem valid).

Lets take a random year. 1995. Going in, the rankings in Jones division was as follows (Ring magazine):

Title Vacant
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Nigel Benn
3. Chris Eubank
4. Frankie Liles
5. Vinny Pazienza
6. Tim Littles
7. Michael Nunn
8. Ray Close
9. Graciano Rocchigiani
10. Antoine Byrd

Jones fights that year was Byrd, Paz and Thornton. This was just one example of one of many years where Jones failed to fight top opposition.

Again I am sure you have reasons why Jones (continous) failure to fight top guys is due so this and that. Whatever. There is a pattern/trend that only the must blind of nuthuggers fail to see.

[robertzimmerman]

Dude. Jones avoided the best for various reasons (that you in your man-love deem valid).

Lets take a random year. 1995. Going in, the rankings in Jones division was as follows (Ring magazine):

Title Vacant
1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Nigel Benn
3. Chris Eubank
4. Frankie Liles
5. Vinny Pazienza
6. Tim Littles
7. Michael Nunn
8. Ray Close
9. Graciano Rocchigiani
10. Antoine Byrd

Jones fights that year was Byrd, Paz and Thornton. This was just one example of one of many years where Jones failed to fight top opposition.

Again I am sure you have reasons why Jones (continous) failure to fight top guys is due so this and that. Whatever. There is a pattern/trend that only the must blind of nuthuggers fail to see.

Bat,

how many more times are we going to do this dance?

You cannot claim that he avoided the guys who he didn't fight, just on the grounds that he didn't fight them.

I have told you many, many times that Liles wouldn't fight Roy, despite him being offered his biggest pay day at the time. That has not only been confirmed by HBO, but by Liles' own manager at the time - Jack O'Halloran.

I've also told you many times, that Roy's handlers - the Levin's, had a deep distrust of Don King, and along with Roy, they wouldn't grant King future options for a fight with Benn in 1995.

When Roy couldn't obtain those fights, he could have remained at SMW for years, where he could have reached double figures for defending his IBF belt. But he didn't do that. When he couldn't get the fights at SMW, he moved up to LHW to fight Griffin and Hill. And if Dariusz had dropped his lightly regarded WBO belt and not got stripped, Roy would have been under huge pressure to go and fight him in Germany.

Now regarding your previous post, tell us how Roy could have gotten the biggest fights, had he have dropped his belts?

Also, please tell us how he was supposedly hiding behind them.