British Islamists jailed for al Qaeda suicide bomb plot in UK

[MartinC]

I never heard about the terrorists caught in Canada, glad they were caught too.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I don't diminish what happened at all, its awful BUT worse things are happening all the time in Pakistan BY American drones for example. Where is this reaction for them? The world is silent. When one attack happens to U.S citizens it gets shown EVERYWHERE for days and days. When one happens in any muslim/third world country it's maybe reported for a day if they're lucky. There is no justice. What religion are those drones fighting for? Why are they killing kids EVERY TIME they strike?

I'm often surprised when people use the example of drones and compare it to terrorists blowing themselves up in public places. This is the reason that the extremists continue to do what they do, because moderates like yourself don't condemn these things. On the contrary, you make examples of other forms of violence (poor examples I might add) to sort of justify these acts. You don't realize it but you the biggest problem of all, moderates like yourself refusing to condemn and stop these people, instead you justify their actions by pointing out other violence.

If this was a part of religion like prayer, fasting, hajj etc then why don't we see more of it? I've read plenty of hadiths and the Quran (i've completed it about 30 times). The Quran has extracts which are interpreted differently, some groups i.e. wahabi's interpret it more literally (who happen to commit the majority of these attacks, wahabism is what Saudi follow) whereas you will have sufis who see some bits as more symbolic.

This is the point with all religion isn't it. That it can be interpreted anyway you want. That's why there are many different sects of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc...if god wanted his word to be understood by mankind, he did a really ****ty job of doing so.

By the way, look at the Rohingya massacre that is happening right now in Burma and then tell me that Buddhism is peaceful and Islam is not.

So you bring up something that happened in 1942 because of the Japanese invasion of Burma and try to equate that with the countless bombings around the world by Islamists? That's just a poor attempt, where are the Buddhists blowing themselves up against the Chinese? Doesn't happen does it, really bad example.

If you didn't have a world without religion I ASSURE you, it would not be as rosy as you think. Some of the best people I know are religious, they show restraint/patience because Islam teaches that. I have other friends who are not religious at all and they are the worst people I know, they have no fear of anything, total lack of respect. Now that is a very selective example but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. People kill/hurt each other in my city regularly, none of it is based on religion. You get more people who kill each other over things like money than religion.

I never said that humans would never be violent or cruel to each other if religion was gone, but if you look at history, you can see almost ALL of the wars and mass killings have happened because of some religion or another. Religion is a poison, you just don't realize it yet because you like billions of other have been indoctrinated.

Those which teach about hating everyone but Muslims are obviously misled and not doing their job properly and betraying the parents trust. Why wasn't I taught that? Why weren't others I know taught that? Why whenever I have visited madrassas or spoken to people from them that I know/don't know it has never been an issue? I'm telling you, they make it into a bigger problem than it actually is. It is a problem, it does happen I am not disputing that at all BUT to the scale that the media portrays it to occur is absurd.

Again, you're personal experiences are not reflective of what's going on in the world. There are schools in Pakistan, Afghanistan and around the Muslim world that teach hatred towards Jews, Christians and westerners. How do I know this? Because of many documentaries I have seen, accounts by the individuals themselves who were brought up in these militant schools and the amount of violence happening in the world that's perpetrated by Muslims themselves. These are not isolated incidents.

If you think that killing yourself (which is FORBIDDEN in Islam) which is alien in Islam it didn't happen before until recently for the most part, is pushed forward in Islam then I don't know to tell you. I mean, I can go to about 30 imams right now who are well versed in Islam and they will tell you that what these two ppl did in Boston was absolutely HARAM (FORBIDDEN). They were brainwashed and many of the people who do these bombings are mentally vulnerable people, they lack direction and there are a few people that take advantage of this to pursue their own agenda and interpretation of the Quran. There are narrations in Bukhari that completely back up that suicide is forbidden. If it was allowed in religion do you think that out of 1-2 billion muslims, there would only this amount of bombings occurring?

Again, holy books can be interpreted anyway you want. While some Imams say it's wrong to kill yourself and others, other Imams use different scriptures in the Quran and Hadiths to justify the killings.

It's a damn shame and a tragedy but let's not blame all the worlds problems on religion, I think poverty/money plays a MUCH bigger role. You don't ever see rich/well-off/educated/coming from a good family with a good upbringing people ever doing suicide bombings. I've seen that one guy who worked in the gym (who was recently accused in Birmingham, UK of conspiring) and he was not educated, not really bright and people like that can be molded.

Sorry but these are lies that moderates tell all the time. If you look at the 9/11 hijackers, they weren't poor and uneducated. As a matter of fact some were doctors and engineers. They came from well to do families in Saudi Arabia. So what you say is a flat out lie.

Religion is the only poison that can turn an incredibly well to do, well educated person into a suicide bomber. Dr AQ Khan, the Pakistani scientists who gave Pakistan nuclear capabilities, was an incredibly smart man, a genius. He understood physics and science and yet still believed that a man ascended to heaven on a winged horse and when you die you will get 72 black eyed virgins to have your way with.

Religion poisons the mind of even the most educated and wealthy.

[squealpiggy]

Cuac, dont judge Islam by this tiny minority. There are scores of terrorists in these places - let us say thousands, even millions!

What is x million (single figures! - and its not millions) / 1.67 billion.

The issue is Wahabbism - radical extremism from Saudi Arabian scholars. They are far removed from orthodox Islam.

And they say the same thing about you, especially if you are moderate in your beliefs. You don't get to declare them "not true muslims".

I don't diminish what happened at all, its awful BUT worse things are happening all the time in Pakistan BY American drones for example. Where is this reaction for them? The world is silent.

What about the massacre of ethnic Balochis by the Pakistan government? There's much more noise about drones than there is about Balochistan. It's like you don't actually care about innocent people being killed because of their religion or ethnicity.

The biggest issue facing Islam at the moment is not the large minority of extremists. It's the automatic tu-coque response of the majority as soon as any of them plan a massacre of innocent people. If your response to people who claim to represent your faith plotting to murder innocent people is "but the Americans use drones!!!!!" then you need to check your fucking head.

When one attack happens to U.S citizens it gets shown EVERYWHERE for days and days. When one happens in any muslim/third world country it's maybe reported for a day if they're lucky.

Yes when a large event happens in the First World it is shown all over in the First World. That's how news works. For the same reason the Boston bombings that killed three people dominated the news for two weeks but the hundreds of deaths related to firearms in the same period across the US don't get a mention. For the same reason that one woman getting knifed to death in an alley by a stranger makes headlines but a dozen women being murdered by their partners barely warrants a mention.

Something that happens frequently is not news. News requires novelty. If it was weighted by the number of deaths then every headline every day would be about children dying from lack of basic nutrition and medical care in Third World countries.

There is no justice. What religion are those drones fighting for? Why are they killing kids EVERY TIME they strike?

The drones are taking on the Pakistani Taliban mainly. They are carefully targeting the enemies of the West and as a result have greatly diminished the threat against the West by al-Qaeda and major Islamist groups. And they have done so with extremely light casualties. Don't forget that the targets of the drones in Yemen and Pakistan are in a state of war with the United States. And in war people get hurt. That's sort of the point of wars.

If this was a part of religion like prayer, fasting, hajj etc then why don't we see more of it?

Because most people don't want to murder lots of innocent people. But enough do that makes it dangerous.

I've read plenty of hadiths and the Quran (i've completed it about 30 times). The Quran has extracts which are interpreted differently, some groups i.e. wahabi's interpret it more literally

Wouldn't it be better if the omniscient Allah wrote a holy book that was less open to interpretation then? Maybe say something like "Don't blow yourself up on the subway in order to murder a bunch of innocent civilians, asshole"? Why one more cynical than I might even say that it looks like god doesn't actually exist and the whole thing was made up ad hoc by an ordinary human being.

By the way, look at the Rohingya massacre that is happening right now in Burma and then tell me that Buddhism is peaceful and Islam is not.

I was going to mention that in response to the Sam Harris video. Rohingya is looking like it has some of the makings of a Rwanda. Only the makings though. Less than 100 dead total including Rakhine people (what, don't you CARE about Sudanese refugees?) at this point with many thousands displaced. The biggest concern is that the Burmese government are attempting to reclassify Rohingya people as stateless Bengalis in order to deny them citizenship rights. Things are just getting started there. Perhaps we should send in the UN, you'd be all for that right?

If you didn't have a world without religion I ASSURE you, it would not be as rosy as you think.

Getting rid of religion won't get rid of assholes, no.

Some of the best people I know are religious, they show restraint/patience because Islam teaches that.

Are you seriously saying that the people you know that show restraint and patience would be total dicks if they had the chance? That's not nice of you.

I have other friends who are not religious at all and they are the worst people I know, they have no fear of anything, total lack of respect.

The biggest fear of nonreligious people is religious people.

Those which teach about hating everyone but Muslims are obviously misled and not doing their job properly and betraying the parents trust.

Except they are also teaching that any Muslims who are not teaching about hating non-Muslims are misled and betraying their parents.

I have been to Pakistan which if you ever follow American Media and there are terrorist attacks happening there but corruption is BY FAR more of an issue than terrorism in a country where 'terrorism' is rife.

I daresay corruption and poverty are a major concern in most third world countries. The problem is that in Muslim countries they deflect the attention away from the source of the corruption, their own government, by blaming the US and the West. Which makes people want to deliberately murder Western civilians. And you are helping.

If you think that killing yourself (which is FORBIDDEN in Islam) which is alien in Islam it didn't happen before until recently for the most part, is pushed forward in Islam then I don't know to tell you. I mean, I can go to about 30 imams right now who are well versed in Islam and they will tell you that what these two ppl did in Boston was absolutely HARAM (FORBIDDEN). They were brainwashed and many of the people who do these bombings are mentally vulnerable people, they lack direction and there are a few people that take advantage of this to pursue their own agenda and interpretation of the Quran. There are narrations in Bukhari that completely back up that suicide is forbidden. If it was allowed in religion do you think that out of 1-2 billion muslims, there would only this amount of bombings occurring?

You just accused the Western media of not caring about the rest of the world and yet here you are doing the same thing. Five car bombs went off in Iraq today. A car bomb went off in Syria yesterday. There are thousands of terror attacks against civilians perpetrated by Muslims around the world, they are happening all the time. And you know what? Most of the victims are other muslims.

Now you might say that the Hadith or Quran forbid murdering muslims. But these sects justify their actions by saying that the other muslims are the wrong sort of muslims and aren't real muslims at all. Or that they are traitors working with the "Zionist Crusaders" whatever that means.

Stop trying to justify this bullshit, stop trying to handwave it away, stop making excuses for the monsters who make your religion look like a bag of dicks.

It's a damn shame and a tragedy but let's not blame all the worlds problems on religion, I think poverty/money plays a MUCH bigger role. You don't ever see rich/well-off/educated/coming from a good family with a good upbringing people ever doing suicide bombings.

No. The "rich/well-off/educated/coming from a good family with a good upbringing" radicals are the ones who buy the explosives and plan the attacks. All it takes for someone to become radicalised is for them to suffer from a bit of identity confusion as a teenager and for someone else to show them a way of life that has meaning.

If poverty made people suicide bombers Sudan would be a crater.

[Danieltapia]

I just heard on the news they busted more of them in London planning to bomb a girls school. Always better to hear this than to hear about it after it happened.

[adayin73]

A disturbing amount of radical muslims running amok in europe..

Define "radical Muslim"? Just someone who is planning to kill? Someone who promotes violence? To be honest, just the existence of certain religions is extreme to me. Muslims teach their children that they're going to heaven when they die, and that heaven is this wonderful, beautiful, perfect place... so perfect the human mind cannot imagine just how perfect, and that non-Muslims are going to burn in hell, and that hell is the complete opposite of heaven; unimaginable pain, suffering, evil... all the most horrible **** you can imagine, x99999999 and it still won't come close to how horrible it is, and the only reason they're going there is because they weren't Muslim. And yes, I know Christians have this same concept too. I don't know if Hinduism & Buddhism have the concept of heaven & hell.

So basically, any religion that has the idea of heaven & hell in its theology, is extreme by its very nature.

[adayin73]

Muslims are being attacked everywhere

slowly taking over their land with their settlements (etc)

And a lot of Muslims constantly boast about how they're taking over Europe by outbreeding the Europeans. But they're upset about Jews taking over a tiny piece of land in the desert. The hypocrisy of Muslims is just hilarious.

We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades. - Muammar Gaddafi

Read up on the history of Israel, their nation was BUILT on terrorism.

You're right, Israel was founded upon terrorism... but... so were a lot of countries. And in fact, the spread of Islam was due to terrorism. If Muhammad was alive today, he'd be commanding his followers to bomb non-Muslims if they don't convert. He'd be on the FBI's Most Wanted list.

I live with muslims day in day out and I haven't met and spoke to ANYONE who is going to go out and bomb somewhere.

LMAO

They're not going to walk around blurting it out to everyone.

I wish people like you went out and met Muslims and spoke to them, ate with them.

I have. The moment I tell them I'm an atheist, I see/hear the hatred in their eyes/voice.