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View Poll Results: What is the outcome of this match up at heavyweight?
Draw 0 0%
Deontay Wilder wins by decision 0 0%
Deontay Wilder wins by stoppage (KO, TKO or RTD) - Specify round 17 36.17%
Oleksandr Usyk wins by decision 25 53.19%
Oleksandr Usyk wins by stoppage (KO, TKO or RTD) - Specify round 5 10.64%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-07-2018, 01:38 PM #51
richardt richardt is online now
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Originally Posted by Mr Objecitivity View Post
To be fair, you do have an acceptable point in claiming that because Oleksandr Usyk hasn't competed as much or proven himself as much at heavyweight and that therefore, you are not fully confident in his chances against some of the heavyweights. That's totally fine by me. And I also don't have any problem with anybody picking Deontay Wilder to win.

However, my point is that it is ridiculous to think of this match up as a mismatch. Or that Oleksandr Usyk doesn't stand a respectable chance of winning. Or that it is too far fetched to think that Oleksandr Usyk could beat Deontay Wilder.

I personally would make Wilder the slight favorite if they both fought each other at heavyweight in Usyk's first bout there. However, with a few tune up bouts for Usyk, it'd be the opposite.

Deontay Wilder himself hasn't proven himself much against the best opposition at heavyweight. So he isn't that proven in the heavyweight than Usyk is for example. And that Usyk would probably stand a better chance at beating Wilder than nearly every opponent Wilder has faced till now.

You make the following claim:



History is also littered with examples where the best boxer in a lighter weight division, moves up to challenge the best boxer in a higher weight division, and ends up being able to beat that boxer in the higher weight division. Even though prior to the lighter boxer fighting that heavier boxer, the lighter boxer may have never fought any other opponent with a similar knockout record, punching power or special abilities as the heavier boxer. They still end up managing to beat such an opponent in a higher weight division in their first attempt at boxing against an opponent with such abilities.

For example, Michael Spinks did it against Larry Holmes and Roy Jones jr did it against John Ruiz. So Oleksandr Usyk can very well do it against Wilder too.
The Spinks and the Jones, etc., are exceptions, not the rule and they were not facing 6/7 heavyweights with unquestionably huge power. Wilder would be a big favorite to win for obvious reasons. I'll bet money on it. But there is no data in yet for Usyk till he beats top heavyweights to get the shot, till then, like a blood sample, the vile is empty. Re-evaluate AFTER he fights heavyweight fights, it is too premature at this point for make believe.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:40 PM #52
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Originally Posted by mlac View Post
I think he'd UD both Wilder and AJ tbh..

Neither are remotely close to his level of boxing skill, movement and footwork, of course they could land a lucky bomb and stop him though...
Stop trolling

If he could he would.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:48 AM #53
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Originally Posted by richardt View Post
The Spinks and the Jones, etc., are exceptions, not the rule and they were not facing 6/7 heavyweights with unquestionably huge power. Wilder would be a big favorite to win for obvious reasons. I'll bet money on it. But there is no data in yet for Usyk till he beats top heavyweights to get the shot, till then, like a blood sample, the vile is empty. Re-evaluate AFTER he fights heavyweight fights, it is too premature at this point for make believe.

Quote:
The Spinks and the Jones, etc., are exceptions, not the rule
And Oleksandr Usyk is an exceptional boxer is what I'm stating to you. Usyk won the cruiser weight title in fewer bouts than any past cruiser weight champion in history. And if he wins the tournament that is currently taking place in the cruiser weight division, then he would've accomplished another unprecedented feat. When a boxer accomplishes such unprecedented feats and multiple of them, they have to be considered exceptionally talented and special boxers.

Quote:
and they were not facing 6/7 heavyweights with unquestionably huge power.
Deontay Wilder's punching power is no more proven than Alex Stewart's at the elite level against the best boxers:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Alex Stewart had a 100% knockout record in his first 24 bouts. When he had his first bout against one of the best heavyweight boxers at the time in Evander Holyfield, he was stopped in the 8th round. When he took on the second elite opponent in Mike Tyson, he was stopped in the first round.

My point is, Deontay Wilder's punching power is almost totally unproven at the elite level against the best opponents. His knockout performances against lower level opponents has no relevance to how effective his punching power is going to be at the elite level against someone at the level of Oleksandr Usyk. No more than Alex Stewart's 100% knockout record having any relevance against the best opponents when he finally stepped up in competition to face two of the best opponents in Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield at the time, both guys that he lost to.

Also, the height and reach difference between Oleksandr Usyk and Deontay Wilder is less than the height and reach difference between Mike Tyson and Alex Stewart. And Deontay Wilder isn't as good as true outside boxing specialists like the Klitschkos and Lennox Lewis at using his height and reach advantages.

Quote:
Wilder would be a big favorite to win for obvious reasons.
Oleksandr Usyk would stand a better chance at beating Wilder than most, if not all of Wilder's current opponents have had so far.

Quote:
But there is no data in yet for Usyk till he beats top heavyweights to get the shot,
Likewise, there isn't much data on how Wilder would perform against the best and elite opponents in his own weight division and how effective he would be against them. Deontay Wilder is no Wladimir Klitschko, or Vitali Klitschko, or Lennox Lewis when it comes to being proven champions.

So your very claim about there not being any data on Usyk, can be used against you in Wilder's case since it is the same with Wilder too.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:52 PM #54
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Originally Posted by Mr Objecitivity View Post
And Oleksandr Usyk is an exceptional boxer is what I'm stating to you. Usyk won the cruiser weight title in fewer bouts than any past cruiser weight champion in history. And if he wins the tournament that is currently taking place in the cruiser weight division, then he would've accomplished another unprecedented feat. When a boxer accomplishes such unprecedented feats and multiple of them, they have to be considered exceptionally talented and special boxers.



Deontay Wilder's punching power is no more proven than Alex Stewart's at the elite level against the best boxers:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Alex Stewart had a 100% knockout record in his first 24 bouts. When he had his first bout against one of the best heavyweight boxers at the time in Evander Holyfield, he was stopped in the 8th round. When he took on the second elite opponent in Mike Tyson, he was stopped in the first round.

My point is, Deontay Wilder's punching power is almost totally unproven at the elite level against the best opponents. His knockout performances against lower level opponents has no relevance to how effective his punching power is going to be at the elite level against someone at the level of Oleksandr Usyk. No more than Alex Stewart's 100% knockout record having any relevance against the best opponents when he finally stepped up in competition to face two of the best opponents in Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield at the time, both guys that he lost to.

Also, the height and reach difference between Oleksandr Usyk and Deontay Wilder is less than the height and reach difference between Mike Tyson and Alex Stewart. And Deontay Wilder isn't as good as true outside boxing specialists like the Klitschkos and Lennox Lewis at using his height and reach advantages.



Oleksandr Usyk would stand a better chance at beating Wilder than most, if not all of Wilder's current opponents have had so far.



Likewise, there isn't much data on how Wilder would perform against the best and elite opponents in his own weight division and how effective he would be against them. Deontay Wilder is no Wladimir Klitschko, or Vitali Klitschko, or Lennox Lewis when it comes to being proven champions.

So your very claim about there not being any data on Usyk, can be used against you in Wilder's case since it is the same with Wilder too.
Save the long winded unconnected analogies for your self-entertainment purposes because Usyk is not a heavyweight yet. Again, you are clearly showing how new to boxing you are because Tyson and Steward are two entirely different fighters from Usyk and Wilder and EVERY FIGHT and EVERY FIGHTER creates a completely different set of dynamics! This point, as always, flies right over your head. Another point, Wilder is a heavyweight who has fought heavyweights in the pro game and Usyk is not a heavyweight yet! Come back when there is data sampling of Usyk in the heavyweight division and then re-evaluate his chances! I'm not going to keep wasting my time going around in circles with you. End of discussion.

Last edited by richardt; 01-08-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:08 AM #55
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Save the long winded unconnected analogies for your self-entertainment purposes because Usyk is not a heavyweight yet. Again, you are clearly showing how new to boxing you are because Tyson and Steward are two entirely different fighters from Usyk and Wilder and EVERY FIGHT and EVERY FIGHTER creates a completely different set of dynamics! This point, as always, flies right over your head. Another point, Wilder is a heavyweight who has fought heavyweights in the pro game and Usyk is not a heavyweight yet! Come back when there is data sampling of Usyk in the heavyweight division and then re-evaluate his chances! I'm not going to keep wasting my time going around in circles with you. End of discussion.
Agree to disagree my friend! No need for any hostility. I've made my points already and you've failed to address them. So let's leave the discussion as it is and end it here.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:11 AM #56
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Agree to disagree my friend! No need for any hostility. I've made my points already and you've failed to address them. So let's leave the discussion as it is and end it here.
I've addressed them as they are, for your entertainment purposes only; nothing more, nothing less. Like I said, when Usyk's heavyweight data is in, then we can see what his chances might be.

Last edited by richardt; 01-09-2018 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 01-10-2018, 01:57 AM #57
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I've addressed them as they are, for your entertainment purposes only; nothing more, nothing less. Like I said, when Usyk's heavyweight data is in, then we can see what his chances might be.
Every point you've made so far (against Oleksandr Usyk), I've countered them with a reverse argument which also applies to Deontay Wilder.

You keep stating:
Quote:
"when Usyk's heavyweight data is in, then we can see what his chances might be."
Likewise, when Deontay Wilder's data against elite / best possible boxers are in, then we can see what his chances might be against such a level of opponent.

Oleksandr Usyk has actually competed at super heavyweight already. And the quality of Wilder's heavyweight opponents aren't necessarily any better than the quality of Usyk's super heavyweight opponents in the amateurs and in the WSB.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:30 PM #58
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Originally Posted by Mr Objecitivity View Post
Every point you've made so far (against Oleksandr Usyk), I've countered them with a reverse argument which also applies to Deontay Wilder.

You keep stating:

Likewise, when Deontay Wilder's data against elite / best possible boxers are in, then we can see what his chances might be against such a level of opponent.

Oleksandr Usyk has actually competed at super heavyweight already. And the quality of Wilder's heavyweight opponents aren't necessarily any better than the quality of Usyk's super heavyweight opponents in the amateurs and in the WSB.
You are still not getting it! STOP with the speculation on how Usyk will do against heavyweights until he fights at heavyweight!!!! And only a fool would say Usyk has competed at super heavyweights because this is the PRO game, not the AM's! I already told you to come back when Usyk is fighting at heavyweight and you still continue with your obsessive/compulsive crap! I already told you I am done going in circles with you!!!!! Stop beating a dead horse! And dont respond to my email, I wont see any more of your self-entertainment useless drivel, I have better ways to spend my time, obviously you dont have better things to do than than going over and over and over again in circles! You are on ignore.

Last edited by richardt; 01-10-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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