Andre War, he small. Trust me, he a little mofo but he strong as hell. Ain't no body on this universe that could knock out Kovalove, but Andre made it happen so easy. Shit was crazy yall. But now he talkin bout "I'm retire" like wtf man how you gonna retire, that some bullshit. Trust me man it's fake. But anyway man yeah he a true warrior and cain't no man take that away from him. He a beast.
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Who has the better legacy? Joe Calzaghe or Andre Ward?
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Originally posted by bluepete View PostHave a look at the list again. Bute never beat anyone of note and was fragile. Groves has only one win of note, an early close one over Degale. Abraham was a middle, never a top supermiddle. Pascal was weak at supermiddle, but still he's claim to fame is getting beat by a 46 year old. Dirrel beat Froch in most people's eyes, and has no big wins himself. Taylor was coming off a knockout losses to Pavlic Abraham, never beat anyone of note at supermiddle. You mention Barrera, what has he done against World championship material? For that matter, other than Cleverly and 50 year old Hopkins, what has Kovalev done? Calzaghe was never floored or rocked by a journeyman, the only people to floor him were world champions. Ward was floored by a journeyman however. Watch Calzaghes big wins and tell me with a straight face he played it safe in any of them. That was Andre's style. Eubank is on record saying he was never a Cruiser, had to stuff himself silly to even make the weight, an at 13 stone 4 still hurt and floored Carl Thompson, which alot of good cruisers couldn't. He never claimed to be weight drained for Calzaghe,who floored him twice. He had a training camp before Calzaghe because he was fighting a friend of mine, Mark Prince. Thompson held a world title and was not a journeyman. He was forty when he stopped a Haye who was a hot prospect, destroying everyone by knockout. Eubank was better than Froch, who had some good wins but isn't the monster Ward fans like to claim he was. Just like Kovalev has a pretty thin resume himself, other than beating Ward in the eyes of many the first time, who did he beat? Nathan Cleverly, 50 year old BHop, Pascal who had no world class wins at a weight he never fought at again, who's claim to fame is losing he's title to the oldest guy ever. How's that?
-Degale is the current SMW Champion, the only other guy he lost to was current LHW Champion Jack.
-Abraham considered a P4P fighter by most in the sport, 10 consecutive defenses at MW, he moved up to challenge himself. Abraham+Kessler were the favorites to win the tournament.
-Pascal has been a Champion and 168 and 175, he's only lost to guys considered for or on the P4P list. Hopkins arguably beat Calzaghe lol, you can't act like Calzaghe dominated him the win was controversial and the replays all showed him missing.
-Dirrell was a monster, he was schooling Abraham, the last time we saw a SMW with his size/speed/reflexes was a prime RJJ. He was never the same after the Abraham fight.
-Taylor beat a younger Hopkins 2x more convincingly than Calzaghe. He recovered well from Pavlik and went the distance in the rematch, it was the vicious KO from Abraham that ended his career 1 year after Froch.
RJJ was journeyman level by the time he fought Calzaghe. Calzaghe even admitted that RJJ was no good anymore to his own son who was fearing for his father's life after seeing prime RJJ highlights.
Mitchell was journeyman level, he was just fighting other journeymen, SMW back in these days was trash. He'd gotten dropped hard 2x by a journeyman, Green, I'd say he's journeyman.
Salem was journeyman level, again racked up wins over mostly other journeyman, Bute beat him FAR more convincingly than Calzaghe.
NONE of these men possess true KO power, Salem's KO % is barely at 41%. Hopkins isn't a power puncher, RJJ lost all his power years ago, Mitchell is far from a power puncher etc.
And to top it all off he went life and death with Robin Reid who already lost to a journeyman in Mulanga.
You think Calzaghe can take a punch from Kovalev, or even Barrera for that matter? Even Sakio Bika was rocking this dude. He avoided power punchers like the plague because guys with 40% KO ratios were putting him on his ass.
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Originally posted by GhostofDempsey View PostEubank was a not a full blown cruiser and his two opponents prior to Calzaghe were natural SMW and WWs.
Dawson also lost to Fonfara, Karpency and Pascal. Tarver was already 40 and done when Dawson beat him.
Fact remains, Eubank on any day was better than Dawson at his best.
Dawson was considered a P4P fighter when Ward wrecked him, after that Stevenson wrecked him and he was never the same after 2 straight KO's.
You try to discredit his win over Tarver but afterwards Tarver won a title at cruiserweight lol. Dawson's resume is no joke. Adamek is arguably Vitali's best win of his career.
Meanwhile Eubank already lost 2x to Collins, was fighting at cruiser, got dragged back down to 168, then went onto lose to a journeyman cruiser 2x.Last edited by Cutthroat; 10-10-2017, 02:06 PM.
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Calzaghe deserves wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yy more respect on this damn site. Reigned in his division for a decade, moved up and beat two ATG's though they were past their best. He was the best at 168 for a long time. I do agree that Ward has a better legacy though. He has a better resume and better skills.
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Originally posted by Cutthroat View PostCompletely false, Eubank had been a cruiser for 2 years, he fought his last 2 fights against Alcorne and Barrera well above the LHW limit of 175, he was a cruiser.
Prime Dawson not special? Wins over Hopkins, Tarver x2, Glen Johnson x2, and upset future Cruiserweight Champion and HW Champion Adamek.
Adamek is a top 3 win on Vitali Klitschko's resume and arguably the best win of his career lol.
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Originally posted by Cutthroat View Post-Bute was cold clocking guys left and right, he'd already made 10 consecutive defenses against his SMW title. Froch wrecked him and he was never the same. Also near P4P status, some people even had him ahead of Ward.
-Degale is the current SMW Champion, the only other guy he lost to was current LHW Champion Jack.
-Abraham considered a P4P fighter by most in the sport, 10 consecutive defenses at MW, he moved up to challenge himself. Abraham+Kessler were the favorites to win the tournament.
-Pascal has been a Champion and 168 and 175, he's only lost to guys considered for or on the P4P list. Hopkins arguably beat Calzaghe lol, you can't act like Calzaghe dominated him the win was controversial and the replays all showed him missing.
-Dirrell was a monster, he was schooling Abraham, the last time we saw a SMW with his size/speed/reflexes was a prime RJJ. He was never the same after the Abraham fight.
-Taylor beat a younger Hopkins 2x more convincingly than Calzaghe. He recovered well from Pavlik and went the distance in the rematch, it was the vicious KO from Abraham that ended his career 1 year after Froch.
RJJ was journeyman level by the time he fought Calzaghe. Calzaghe even admitted that RJJ was no good anymore to his own son who was fearing for his father's life after seeing prime RJJ highlights.
Mitchell was journeyman level, he was just fighting other journeymen, SMW back in these days was trash. He'd gotten dropped hard 2x by a journeyman, Green, I'd say he's journeyman.
Salem was journeyman level, again racked up wins over mostly other journeyman, Bute beat him FAR more convincingly than Calzaghe.
NONE of these men possess true KO power, Salem's KO % is barely at 41%. Hopkins isn't a power puncher, RJJ lost all his power years ago, Mitchell is far from a power puncher etc.
And to top it all off he went life and death with Robin Reid who already lost to a journeyman in Mulanga.
You think Calzaghe can take a punch from Kovalev, or even Barrera for that matter? Even Sakio Bika was rocking this dude. He avoided power punchers like the plague because guys with 40% KO ratios were putting him on his ass.
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Originally posted by Mr.Fantastic View PostIt doesn't wipe the first one. Ward got outboxed. The way he beat Kovalev on the 2nd fight wasn't anything special. Low blows and a quick ref stoppage with no count. It wasn't anything great. But that's my opinion and you have yours.
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Originally posted by SkillspayBills View PostCalzaghe deserves wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yy more respect on this damn site. Reigned in his division for a decade, moved up and beat two ATG's though they were past their best. He was the best at 168 for a long time. I do agree that Ward has a better legacy though. He has a better resume and better skills.
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