‘1996’ Roy Jones Jr vs ‘2012’ Andre Ward

[DreamFighter]

A past prime RJJ beat a extremely motivated (has been dreaming of a RJJ fight since they were kids in Florida) southpaw Tarver after dropping 25 pounds of muscle.

this, 25 lbs is a debilitating loss in weight. Ideally Jones should have dropped to CW, a move he made too late in reality, and ended it there in a soft division taking a CW title then quitting. No blame attached for not staying waiting for some inevitable monster to crush his aged form.

I guess soft divisions like SMW and CW didnt have the appeal to someone who grew up without them existing.

[Froch_uppercut]

the criteria was prime not 40 years old and should have been retired years ago. Calzaghe outpoints (not destroys, he was featherfist) anyone who is shot to shyt for sure, but who doesnt? With feint praise my friend, you utterly damn Joe. Hes not in these guys league.

Ridiculous. If JC was a NY born Italian American he'd be rightly lauded as an ATG, He had good power before breaking his hands, which were extremely brittle. He changed his style and just beat you up with volume.

If Jones would've even kept it close you could make a case that he could make the difference up if the fight was 5 years sooner, but 2 things.

1. He wouldn't fight Calzaghe sooner, he ducked him.

2. The gap in class between the 2 was so evident that there is no way Jones beats him at any point in his career.

That's the thing with American fighters, their legacies are massively inflated because, hey, they're American.

[48cantCstraight]

Second time the son of God gets murdered on this Earth.

[48cantCstraight]

Here we go again. The guy everyone admires more just walks through the guy who never lost. I think it's a points fight. Roy didnt just blast out everyone, even in hes prime. He struggled with Griffin just a year later, and I think Ward is far better than Griffin, with a comparable jab and left hook lead that would trouble Jones.Difficult points win for Jones.

Ward is a good fighter but one of the main reasons he never lost was because he took a two year layoff and retired at 33. Think about this, he fought 7 times in the last 6 years of his career lol. The man only had 32 fights for fuks sake. A good fighter but nothing special, vastly overrated because of the gold medal and the undefeated record. Roy beats the brakes off him.

[DreamFighter]

Ridiculous. If JC was a NY born Italian American he'd be rightly lauded as an ATG,

good start by admitting hes NOT an ATG, nice. I thought you were arguing pro-joe.

He had good power before breaking his hands, which were extremely brittle. He changed his style and just beat you up with volume.

actually he always used volume to compensate for his lack of accuracy. power is just not joe though, this is a fact beyond dispute.

If Jones would've even kept it close you could make a case that he could make the difference up if the fight was 5 years sooner, but 2 things.

1. He wouldn't fight Calzaghe sooner, he ducked him.

aside from the fakir Ottke, noone ducked calzaghe ever, because for his entire career before lacy and kessler he was seen as easy meat with an unrecognised title. and to quote calzaghe word for word -

"I'm not chasing roy jones" - so argue with joe all you want, ...but joe killed your argument dead. You are not having a good time here when the guy you are defending knifes you in the back.

2. The gap in class between the 2 was so evident that there is no way Jones beats him at any point in his career.

it always is that way with someone shot, so dead argument too. You must rate Trev Berbick as ATG HW number one as well for outclassing shot ali - bit of a joke doing that, dont you think. Probably one of the biggest joke statements anyone ever made on this forum. So why are you making yourself look so bad using it?
Next you'll be claiming that Enzo Mac is ATG number 1 at LHW/CW since he did much better than joe vs shot Jones!

That's the thing with American fighters, their legacies are massively inflated because, hey, they're American.

whats inflated about mw to hw, compared to joes string of unrecognised defences?


Let me just finish by stating Joe was obviously world class, he just never bothered to underline elite status, making one paltry defence outside the wbo, and ending his career as soon as the wbo became recognised and his opposition would get stiffer.

[Mindgames]

Ward is a good fighter but one of the main reasons he never lost was because he took a two year layoff and retired at 33. Think about this, he fought 7 times in the last 6 years of his career lol. The man only had 32 fights for fuks sake. A good fighter but nothing special, vastly overrated because of the gold medal and the undefeated record. Roy beats the brakes off him.

Im not saying Ward wins but look at Jones Hopkins 1 and particularly Griffin 1.Jones didnt just smoke everyone. Theres no reason to imagine he just walks through a boxer like Ward who has legitimate skills. Jones showed caution against good boxers. If a guy is never slaughtered in hes prime, theres no reason to think he fights another great and falls to pieces. Jones didnt destroy Hopkins, a weight drained Toney. Guys like Harding, Gonzalez and even Chirino but suddenly he just destroys a man who only had one close fight in hes career? Nah i cant see it. We had another thread where people were seeing the Manny who beat Hatton knocking out the Chavez who beat Rosario inside 6! Even though no one even dented that version of Chavez and the same Manny couldnt put Marquez away. People tend to imagine fantastical scenarios instead of looking at it logically.

[DreamFighter]

Ward is a good fighter but one of the main reasons he never lost was because he took a two year layoff and retired at 33. Think about this, he fought 7 times in the last 6 years of his career lol. The man only had 32 fights for fuks sake. A good fighter but nothing special, vastly overrated because of the gold medal and the undefeated record. Roy beats the brakes off him.

i wonder how they compare for % of elite faced, percentages would give you a better comparison since as you say one has a much larger resume.

[Mindgames]

RJJ ‘struggled’ with Griffin similarly to the way Mayweather ‘struggled’ with Judah: the first 4-5 rounds were competitive before the better talent started taking over.

Jones dropped Griffin in the 7th before having him basically done in the 9th.

IMO, the Ward/Jones matchup probably looks similar to Jones/Hopkins I. RJJ too fast and Ward not having enough offense to keep up. 8-4/9-3 RJJ in a rugged rough UD. Might even drop Ward once.

He actually struggled quite a bit more than Floyd with Judah. Je actually took some good shots, was outjabbed and countered, and looked pretty desperate when he fouled Montell, on purpose i might add. Jones had trouble adjusting to Griffin's style, and that good left hand held him up a while against someone far shorter and less talented than Ward. I agree with Jones on points, but this wouldn't be a walkover, and im not even a fan of Ward, just talking realistically.