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Old 07-03-2017, 09:43 PM #61
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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I have looked at some Benny Leonard so far, but perhaps not all of it. There is a definite paucity of viewing materials for fighters of that era.
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:51 AM #62
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
fairly certain duran got sparked by hearns at 154 lbs. hearns likely would have stayed there if the money at 160 wasn't so damn good. no real shame in getting sparked by the very best puncher of your era. gives you more respect for the iron chin of ray leonard, too.
I don't know if the iron chin of Ray Leonard.
Or any 154 lb-er, could've withstood getting
nailed. With that much power, right on the button.
Duran dropped like he was shot.
Face first, totally unconscious.
What was amazing was how Hearns couldn't miss.
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Its like Duran was unable to do anything about it.
Duran can take a punch .
Maybe Hearn's height was too much.
Any time Duran tried to get close
Hearns just shoved him away and Wham
I've no doubt that if Hearn's could've landed that exact punch on the same spot on the chins of Hagler or Leonard they would suffered Durans fate.
What amazes me is why Duran couldn't avoid it
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:39 AM #63
TonyGe TonyGe is offline
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[QUOTE=The Old LefHook;17754195

I am quite willing to concede the spots of Robinson, Leonard and Hearns above him. My memory is not good today, I know I am forgetting names. The latin black they called butter, I can never remember his name. He has a lot of respect, but I do think he was rather average in the speed department, though a smooth boxer.

[/QUOTE]
Jose Napoles
Boxing record
Total fights 88
Wins 80
Wins by KO 54
Losses 7
Draws 0
No contests 0
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Old 07-10-2017, 05:04 PM #64
Anthony342 Anthony342 is offline
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Pretty damn good, that's how Duran stacks up. Most have him #1 all-time at lightweight, others at #2, 3 at worst, so I imagine he's be top 10 or 15 at worst all-time pound for pound. What say you all?
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:34 PM #65
Joe Beamish Joe Beamish is offline
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Originally Posted by rightsideup View Post
I agree but Duran would have to have been on his AAA game. At the 154 fight he was foolish for taking fight on short notice and in bad condition.
Yeah. But he was 3 classes above his best division, and was already 33 years old. Keep that in mind. It was hard to be perfect in an era when you took fights. You fought. I can't think of any perfect fighters who actually took on tough competitors in their prime especially well above a weight class you dominated for eons.
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:54 PM #66
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I find it difficult to rate these boxers who had drug and alcohol problems compared to all out athletes like Ali who never did drugs or drank.

Mike Tyson was a drug addict/alcoholic who was also an athlete. Muhammad Ali was a 100% pure athlete, clean as a whistle. I can't help but assume Tyson would've been SO much greater if he never got into drugs...but then he wouldn't be the same Mike Tyson we (most of us) know and love today. You can make this same case for countless other great boxers who may never have reached their ultimate potential. The list is pretty long. Even Julio Cesar Chavez was doing cocaine and drinking hardcore in the 90's and was still an incredible fighter.

Duran was another one who had trouble controlling his alcohol and drug use, as well as binge eating. It's hard to ignore those factors.

Last edited by embryo; 07-10-2017 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:01 PM #67
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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Duran lacked discipline in training. That was his most prominent flaw as a boxer. As a pure fighting spirit he may be the best we have ever seen. I believe he is the greatest pure "fighter," I have seen in my lifetime. There are others, but seldom can they match the accomplishments of Duran. I literally can think of no one who loved to fight as much.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:54 PM #68
rightsideup rightsideup is offline
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Originally Posted by embryo View Post
I find it difficult to rate these boxers who had drug and alcohol problems compared to all out athletes like Ali who never did drugs or drank.

Mike Tyson was a drug addict/alcoholic who was also an athlete. Muhammad Ali was a 100% pure athlete, clean as a whistle. I can't help but assume Tyson would've been SO much greater if he never got into drugs...but then he wouldn't be the same Mike Tyson we (most of us) know and love today. You can make this same case for countless other great boxers who may never have reached their ultimate potential. The list is pretty long. Even Julio Cesar Chavez was doing cocaine and drinking hardcore in the 90's and was still an incredible fighter.

Duran was another one who had trouble controlling his alcohol and drug use, as well as binge eating. It's hard to ignore those factors.
I am not totally convinced Duran had drug issues because he seems to readily admit to the other two vices which certainly can be damaging enough. Ray Leonard also had drug and alcohol issues in his life as well although he seemed to clean up during training periods. I was unaware that ray had those issues until I read his book his written after his career.

Last edited by rightsideup; 07-11-2017 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 07-11-2017, 12:12 AM #69
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Originally Posted by rightsideup View Post
I am not totally convinced Duran had drug issues because he seems to readily admit to the other two vices which certainly can be damaging enough. Ray Leonard also had drug and alcohol issues in his life as well although he seemed to clean up during training periods. I was unaware that ray had those issues until I read his book his written after his career.
Well it's not really self incriminating to say you have an eating problem, also he is a God in his country, I don't think he wants to admit he abused drugs when he has an entire country of children who look up to him. And yeah I know about Ray, but Ray was always much more of a disciplined athlete than many others.
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:08 AM #70
rightsideup rightsideup is offline
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Originally Posted by embryo View Post
Well it's not really self incriminating to say you have an eating problem, also he is a God in his country, I don't think he wants to admit he abused drugs when he has an entire country of children who look up to him. And yeah I know about Ray, but Ray was always much more of a disciplined athlete than many others.
You are correct we may never know I guess I that addiction is not as prevalent or public as his use of alcohol is. There was talk after no mas but it died after that to my knowledge.
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