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Old 06-14-2017, 09:06 PM #31
mikeg1224 mikeg1224 is offline
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Your reading comprehension is not what it should be for someone who fancies himself a charter member of MENSA.

First, I did not insinuate that you were a liar. I explicitly called you a BS artist who invents facts to support his opinion. You have yet failed to explain why Duran was incapable of hurting either Viruet let alone knock either down or out in their 35 Rounds of fighting. Attached for your viewing pleasure is the 2nd Edwin Viruet/Duran fight; in that regard, their 1st fight was a closer affair scored at 96-94:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Second, my opinions about Duran and Mosley are entirely consistent. Since I rated Duran in the Top 3 LWs of all time and because I mentioned that, IMO, Mosley would beat Duran at LW, it does not take a Rhodes scholar like you wish to portray yourself as to conclude that I rate Mosley as one of the Top 2 LWs of all time.

Third, there is no loss if you reserve your opinion about Panama Lewis, since it undoubtedly is merely some more yak-yak from an accomplished BS artist.

Finally, here is a highlight reel of Mosley fights. Please enjoy watching his hand speed and punching power:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:53 PM #32
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Originally Posted by mikeg1224 View Post
OK, call him a handler or one of the entourage or a paid hanger-on.

That's not my point.

The facts are as I stated; namely, that Panama Lewis was in Duran's corner when he fought SRL [who stated that Duran's punches were like getting hit with a bag of rocks] as well as when he fought Davey Moore and recorded the last great TKO of his career.

Finally, I also think that Duran was a very special fighter; certainly in the top three (3) LWs of all time. However, I think Sugar Shane Mosely was better than he.
Duran"s nickname hands of stone is because he hit hard not because Panama Lewis loaded his gloves. That is an absurd observation. Brown and arcel have way to much class to let that happen. Was panama Lewis around when Duran decked Barkley. Frick even guys who spare with him now say he has heavy hands.Do not insult a fighter like Duran with that kind of accusation.
I do agree with you sugar Shane is a excellent fighter.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:18 PM #33
mikeg1224 mikeg1224 is offline
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I appreciate that Duran's nickname of "Hands of Stone" is attributable to the fact that he was a hard puncher. Unfortunately, I did not express myself properly, since I did not mean to imply that it was because Panama Lewis fiddled with his wraps and/or the padding in his gloves. grew up & lived in the Bronx

The point I was attempting to make the night that Duran KOed Moore was that was the same night that Panama Lewis screwed with Risto's wraps and gloves when he destroyed Collins and I was simply wondering did Panama also try to give Duran an edge against Moore who was the favorite going into the bout.

BTW, I grew up and lived in the Bronx most of my adult life and I knew Davey Moore who was another Bronx boy. IMO, Davey should have not fought that night because he had a molar removed earlier that morning but there was no way MSG was going to postpone the fight at the 11th hour.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:55 PM #34
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Originally Posted by mikeg1224 View Post
I appreciate that Duran's nickname of "Hands of Stone" is attributable to the fact that he was a hard puncher. Unfortunately, I did not express myself properly, since I did not mean to imply that it was because Panama Lewis fiddled with his wraps and/or the padding in his gloves. grew up & lived in the Bronx

The point I was attempting to make the night that Duran KOed Moore was that was the same night that Panama Lewis screwed with Risto's wraps and gloves when he destroyed Collins and I was simply wondering did Panama also try to give Duran an edge against Moore who was the favorite going into the bout.

BTW, I grew up and lived in the Bronx most of my adult life and I knew Davey Moore who was another Bronx boy. IMO, Davey should have not fought that night because he had a molar removed earlier that morning but there was no way MSG was going to postpone the fight at the 11th hour.
i apologize i misunderstood your reference and yes i do remember reading about Daveys dental surgery. Davey Moore seemed to be a very talented and dedicated boxer. His accidental death was tragic.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:06 AM #35
rightsideup rightsideup is offline
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Originally Posted by mikeg1224 View Post
Your reading comprehension is not what it should be for someone who fancies himself a charter member of MENSA.

First, I did not insinuate that you were a liar. I explicitly called you a BS artist who invents facts to support his opinion. You have yet failed to explain why Duran was incapable of hurting either Viruet let alone knock either down or out in their 35 Rounds of fighting. Attached for your viewing pleasure is the 2nd Edwin Viruet/Duran fight; in that regard, their 1st fight was a closer affair scored at 96-94:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Second, my opinions about Duran and Mosley are entirely consistent. Since I rated Duran in the Top 3 LWs of all time and because I mentioned that, IMO, Mosley would beat Duran at LW, it does not take a Rhodes scholar like you wish to portray yourself as to conclude that I rate Mosley as one of the Top 2 LWs of all time.

Third, there is no loss if you reserve your opinion about Panama Lewis, since it undoubtedly is merely some more yak-yak from an accomplished BS artist.

Finally, here is a highlight reel of Mosley fights. Please enjoy watching his hand speed and punching power:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]
thank for sharing that footage i saw highlights of the duran fight you posted and the footage was very grainy, i skimmed of yours and will have to watch the whole fight.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:05 AM #36
mikeg1224 mikeg1224 is offline
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Rightsideup,

Here is why I would give Mosley a slight edge over Duran.

Mosley had 32 fights as a LW with a record of 32 W 0 L and 0 D with 32 KOs for a KO % of 94%. Unfortunately for Mosley, he had cleaned out the LW division and he could only make money by moving up in weight; obviously, he was never as dominant in the higher weight classes and, as a result, even knowledgeable boxing fans seem to forget how great a LW Mosley was.

Duran had 64 fights as a LW with a record of 63 W 1 L and 0 D with 57 KOs for a KO% of 89%. His 1 L came to Esteban De Jesus in MSG in a fight which I attended. Believe me I was surprised to see Duran lose that fight and I was even more surprised to see De Jesus knock Duran on his butt with a left hook in the 1st round. Similar to Mosley, Duran had cleaned out the LW division and had to move up in weight for the big money fights, the 1st of which was against SRL in 1980. Also, just like Mosley, Duran was never as dominant in the heavier divisions.

Accordingly, given Mosley's hand speed, his extraordinary punching power [his left hook to the body/liver was awesome], his solid chin, and his 5" reach advantage, I give him a slight edge over Duran. Attached is the 1st fight against De Jesus where Duran is in trouble in Round 1:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Regards,

Mike

Last edited by mikeg1224; 06-15-2017 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 01:38 AM #37
rightsideup rightsideup is offline
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Originally Posted by mikeg1224 View Post
Rightsideup,

Here is why I would give Mosley a slight edge over Duran.

Mosley had 32 fights as a LW with a record of 32 W 0 L and 0 D with 32 KOs for a KO % of 94%. Unfortunately for Mosley, he had cleaned out the LW division and he could only make money by moving up in weight; obviously, he was never as dominant in the higher weight classes and, as a result, even knowledgeable boxing fans seem to forget how great a LW Mosley was.

Duran had 64 fights as a LW with a record of 63 W 1 L and 0 D with 57 KOs for a KO% of 89%. His 1 L came to Esteban De Jesus in MSG in a fight which I attended. Believe me I was surprised to see Duran lose that fight and I was even more surprised to see De Jesus knock Duran on his butt with a left hook in the 1st round. Similar to Mosley, Duran had cleaned out the LW division and had to move up in weight for the big money fights, the 1st of which was against SRL in 1980. Also, just like Mosley, Duran was never as dominant in the heavier divisions.

Accordingly, given Mosley's hand speed, his extraordinary punching power [his left hook to the body/liver was awesome], and his solid chin, I give him a slight edge over Duran. Attached is the 1st fight against De Jesus where Duran is in trouble in Round 1:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Regards,

Mike
its ironic that Duran has been training Shane. To some degree De Jesus was the Frazier of Ali Frazier trilogy In the first fight Duran was poorly prepared yet in the second though a knockout De jEsus style proposed problems by the third duran was so polished he easily dominated. interesting within a minute of your second video which i have watched before it is related than duran could duran. a fact that Duran proved more than a few times

Last edited by rightsideup; 06-15-2017 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:04 AM #38
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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Duran seems to enjoy an unparalleled status in the minds of boxing fans. This is made more incredible by the fact that he outright quit in one of the biggest matches of all time. To restore his reputation after the bold stain of this dishonor would require something extra in the way of pugilistic heroics, which Duran indeed found within himself.

I will go out on a limb and say Duran is one of the greatest welterweights of all time, as well as a hot contender for greatest lightweight.

The nearest of all time greats to Duran in temperament, also happens to be near him in weight. Mickey Walker was at one time the welterweight champion, and moved up to become a small middleweight champion. Duran might have done that, too, if not for the presence of some very great middleweights roaming the division in his day. That is probably all that prevented it. Give Duran a mediocre division and champion, and he could easily have ruled that division for a while (with same day weigh-ins).

I am rock solid sure Duran is a top three AT lightweight. But I really do wonder about his AT credentials as a welterweight. The KO loss to Hearns reflects very badly. The same shots would have KO'd most welters. Duran was much too lackadaisical in that fight, as if he hadn't even considered that Tommy was not a man you should give all that punching room to while you relaxed for a few rounds. Talk about a lousy game plan! That is why I think his mind was not in the fight the way it should have been. I believe he could have done better, though not necessarily have won. It was possible for him to give a much better account of himself, even in defeat, I am saying. Hearns was great, and had every physical advantage, but he was not invincible. Duran probably did hit hard enough to daze Tommy, if not KO him outright.

One has to wonder if Mickey Walker would have fared much better against the Motor City Cobra that night. For danger, the instant fury of a Hearns attack at least matches in my mind the measured advance of Schmeling, a bigger man who KO'd Walker.

When I look around, I do not see a lot of welterweights in history I would bet on against Duran.

The questrion is: In a realistic world, is Duran a top ten all time welterweight?

I am quite willing to concede the spots of Robinson, Leonard and Hearns above him. My memory is not good today, I know I am forgetting names. The latin black they called butter, I can never remember his name. He has a lot of respect, but I do think he was rather average in the speed department, though a smooth boxer.

After you concede three or four positions at the top, isn't eveyone after that quite debatable? I do not feel there are any other welterweight shoo-ins against Duran, than the three named. I feel everyone else is debatable (though I am having a bad memory day, and may have forgotten some important names in the mix), so that he must come very close to top ten welterweight of all time, as well as a top three lightweight. I see no shoo-ins at lightweight against Hands of Stone at all, who was also a man whose skin practically refused to cut.

What do you think?
Well for one, If I recall...the Hearns fight was at 154. and to be fair after Duran beat SRL the first time he went on a partying tirade and blew up over 200 lbs (even 240 some say). It's not to say this is an excuse for an up and down career. The reason Duran get's so much praise is because on his best nights, when he was prepared - he looked simply unbeatable - even against ATG fighters. His Character was sort of one of a kind. A very emotional yet fearless fighter with almost 0 education and a huge mean streak within him.

If you look at Duran's run from LW to the first SRL fight, he wiped out some seriously damn good competition. He basically took Palomino to school after recently moving up from LW. He didn't run, he walked him down and beat the **** out of him. Then he took on SRL and beat him too. (if you give SRL a free pass and blame it on his fighting style, then you can give Duran a free pass for partying too much before the 2nd fight).

I'm not so sure Hearns would have sparked Duran at 147 if Duran showed up ready. If Duran made it past 4 rounds I think he finishes Hearns quicker than SRL did. People tend to overlook the Hearns fight, but even when Duran is out on his feet he lands some pretty mean blows on Hearns chin and body.

At the end of the day every fighter has a weakness. But if you can think of one boxer on his best night being p4p the best Duran is probably the first to come in mind for me, or SRR (but even he to me is untested against a style that seeks to box rather than fight, considering everyone fought you h2h back i his day).
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:09 AM #39
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His resume at lightweight isn't full of big names but I do agree that Shane Mosley at 135 lbs was something special.

As far as welterweight goes I wonder how Pernell Whitaker vs Roberto Duran would have gone.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:11 AM #40
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Originally Posted by mikeg1224 View Post
Rightsideup,

Here is why I would give Mosley a slight edge over Duran.

Mosley had 32 fights as a LW with a record of 32 W 0 L and 0 D with 32 KOs for a KO % of 94%. Unfortunately for Mosley, he had cleaned out the LW division and he could only make money by moving up in weight; obviously, he was never as dominant in the higher weight classes and, as a result, even knowledgeable boxing fans seem to forget how great a LW Mosley was.

Duran had 64 fights as a LW with a record of 63 W 1 L and 0 D with 57 KOs for a KO% of 89%. His 1 L came to Esteban De Jesus in MSG in a fight which I attended. Believe me I was surprised to see Duran lose that fight and I was even more surprised to see De Jesus knock Duran on his butt with a left hook in the 1st round. Similar to Mosley, Duran had cleaned out the LW division and had to move up in weight for the big money fights, the 1st of which was against SRL in 1980. Also, just like Mosley, Duran was never as dominant in the heavier divisions.

Accordingly, given Mosley's hand speed, his extraordinary punching power [his left hook to the body/liver was awesome], his solid chin, and his 5" reach advantage, I give him a slight edge over Duran. Attached is the 1st fight against De Jesus where Duran is in trouble in Round 1:

[Link View Has Been Removed. Click Here To Unlock This Content.]

Regards,

Mike
the competition Mosley faced as a lw wasn't nearly as stiff as Durans. Also Duran clearly outgrew lightweight. Mosley to me seemed as though he bulked up for the money. Mosley was a great lightweight but I could never bring myself to bet on him over a prime Duran.
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