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Old 11-21-2017, 12:59 PM #11
The Big Dunn The Big Dunn is offline
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Originally Posted by chrisJS View Post
I don't have time to go digging up old threads or stuff on different social media pages that show Floyd fans saying crazy stuff. Just open them and you can see.

I guess technically Pacquaio was considered the best in the world when Floyd fought Shane if we are going by BWAA, The Ring and ESPN. He remained there until Marquez knocked him off in November, 2011 (when he schooled him and got robbed). I don't care to get into why that fight didn't happen (When Pacquaio was still Pacquaio), but it didn't and that's a fact.

Last part is not entirely true. Robinson was the best of his or any time and he posted great wins over great fighters in their prime despite opponents not being as good as him. Same for Leonard, for example and many other fighters perceived to be the best of their time.
Yeah, maybe Larry doesn't have time either. So I guess you have an answer to your previous threads.

My point is you are over exaggerating. The negativity is mostly from those that hate Floyd because he kept winning. Just like you are doing in this thread. Had Floyd lost, there wouldn't be a need for those that do not like him to diminish his wins.

No, he wasn't, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Is what it is.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:00 PM #12
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Originally Posted by The Big Dunn View Post
As I said previously, to call the Mosley win tainted for Floyd and not great completely contradicts what was said before the fight.

Prior to the fight, posters and fans claimed Floyd was afraid of Shane because he was bigger and as fast. Many people picked Shane to win.

From the point Floyd got over those monster punches and didn't go down, those same people have decided to focus on Shane's age.

Now, if you are a real boxing fan and didn't let hate for Floyd cloud your judgement prior to the fight, then I can see why you'd think it wasn't great.

That said, if you are someone that hates Floyd and posted some of the things I documented ( and I believe you are one of these people) then how can you not consider it a great win when a man defeats someone who is bigger, as fast, and better, even if they are much older?

mosley's win over margarito was a mirage. the guy was only good with bricks in his gloves. mosley's rating at the time was based off of that win alone. his loss to cotto was three years prior to that, and he looked flat out bad against ricardo mayorga.

then you add in that he was 38 years old and coming off of a year and a half of inactivity, and you have context. don't try to evaluate a win based on a mirage because it fits you agena. evaluate what actually happened. who fought and when, and how good they actually were knowing what we know in hindsight.

brits do this with carl froch, andre ward, and lucian bute. they overrated bute for years, said ward was ducking him. then they see him fight somebody other than a tomato can and get his ass kicked, and they still want to argue that ward was ducking because they'd overrated bute.

in this case we know that margarito did nothing after he was caught with plaster, and that his late power [the thing that made him a dangerous fighter when you couple it with his chin and stamina,] was a mirage. don't rate the win based on that mirage! rate the win on what it was, a win over mosley at the very end of his career, coming off of a layoff, and that his high ranking was based on beating a fighter whose ability was a complete fabrication and who should have never beaten miguel cotto.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:05 PM #13
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mosley's win over margarito was a mirage. the guy was only good with bricks in his gloves. mosley's rating at the time was based off of that win alone. his loss to cotto was three years prior to that, and he looked flat out bad against ricardo mayorga.

then you add in that he was 38 years old and coming off of a year and a half of inactivity, and you have context. don't try to evaluate a win based on a mirage because it fits you agena. evaluate what actually happened. who fought and when, and how good they actually were knowing what we know in hindsight.

brits do this with carl froch, andre ward, and lucian bute. they overrated bute for years, said ward was ducking him. then they see him fight somebody other than a tomato can and get his ass kicked, and they still want to argue that ward was ducking because they'd overrated bute.

in this case we know that margarito did nothing after he was caught with plaster, and that his late power [the thing that made him a dangerous fighter when you couple it with his chin and stamina,] was a mirage. don't rate the win based on that mirage! rate the win on what it was, a win over mosley at the very end of his career, coming off of a layoff, and that his high ranking was based on beating a fighter whose ability was a complete fabrication and who should have never beaten miguel cotto.
We are saying the exact same thing, just differently.

If you let your hate for Floyd cloud your judgement and drive your opinion before the fight-eat crow and call it a great win. If you took a more adult, boxing fan view before the fight, then its a win and we move on.

The issue, as always, is the childlike, unintelligent, retarded, hate fueled rhetoric we get from posters before the fight being thrown back in their face when Floyd wins.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:10 PM #14
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Yeah, maybe Larry doesn't have time either. So I guess you have an answer to your previous threads.

My point is you are over exaggerating. The negativity is mostly from those that hate Floyd because he kept winning. Just like you are doing in this thread. Had Floyd lost, there wouldn't be a need for those that do not like him to diminish his wins.

No, he wasn't, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Is what it is.
Larry does have time. They were things he said and required a yes or no answer to support a a claim. No going back and digging up was required. He also asked me to answer an opinion based question which I did in detail and refused to answer the yes or no answers of claims made. There's a difference.

Also, yes Pacquaio was rated #1 at that time. It is what it is. Doesn't mean it's true (or false), but it happened.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:13 PM #15
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Mayweather-Mosley - Mosley was 38 and 15 months out of the ring.

Joshua-Klitshcko - Klit 41 and 16 months

Cotto-Martinez - Martinez coming off surgeries and 15 months off

Crawford-Gamboa - Gamboa coming off slightly over 12 months off

Any others?

Of these which are tainted/not that great and why?

I'd say you've also got to factor in what stage of the fighters career it was at. Joshua was making a huge step up and had never shared the ring with a top level fighter so he gets credit for that win.
Crawford does too since Gamboa was unbeaten, had good form and was barely just passed 12 months. He also entered as the betting favorite and it was considered a huge step up in competition for Crawford.

I'd say the other two are tainted and don't quite register as great wins due to the ring rust, the ages and the fact Mayweather and Cotto had already been in big fights prior so no excuses for them unfortunately.
I would say they all get credit except crawford. Fougth someone off 12+ layoff and had to move up in weight against someone who already moving up himself.

Crawford basically legally cheated to get a W. TAINTED
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:15 PM #16
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George Foreman was 45 years old and coming off a 17 month layoff when he knocked out 35-0 Michael Moorer to capture the IBF and WBA World Heavyweight titles.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:17 PM #17
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Originally Posted by The Big Dunn View Post
We are saying the exact same thing, just differently.

If you let your hate for Floyd cloud your judgement and drive your opinion before the fight-eat crow and call it a great win. If you took a more adult, boxing fan view before the fight, then its a win and we move on.

The issue, as always, is the childlike, unintelligent, retarded, hate fueled rhetoric we get from posters before the fight being thrown back in their face when Floyd wins.


we are not talking about the same thing. you're trying to make fanboys eat crow, and i'm evaluating a win without giving a f#ck about what some f#ggots posted seven years ago. it was not a great win. has nothing to do with what was said prior. we know shane had little to nothing left, that he looked garbage aginst mayorga, that he was on the slide three years prior when he lost to cotto, and that the margarito win was pretty much useless and that shane had no business on the p4p list in 2009.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:24 PM #18
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mosley's win over margarito was a mirage. the guy was only good with bricks in his gloves. mosley's rating at the time was based off of that win alone. his loss to cotto was three years prior to that, and he looked flat out bad against ricardo mayorga.

then you add in that he was 38 years old and coming off of a year and a half of inactivity, and you have context. don't try to evaluate a win based on a mirage because it fits you agena. evaluate what actually happened. who fought and when, and how good they actually were knowing what we know in hindsight.

brits do this with carl froch, andre ward, and lucian bute. they overrated bute for years, said ward was ducking him. then they see him fight somebody other than a tomato can and get his ass kicked, and they still want to argue that ward was ducking because they'd overrated bute.

in this case we know that margarito did nothing after he was caught with plaster, and that his late power [the thing that made him a dangerous fighter when you couple it with his chin and stamina,] was a mirage. don't rate the win based on that mirage! rate the win on what it was, a win over mosley at the very end of his career, coming off of a layoff, and that his high ranking was based on beating a fighter whose ability was a complete fabrication and who should have never beaten miguel cotto.
Well said. You are completely right.
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:26 PM #19
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I would say they all get credit except crawford. Fougth someone off 12+ layoff and had to move up in weight against someone who already moving up himself.

Crawford basically legally cheated to get a W. TAINTED
The irony of that is that he only got the Gamboa fight because Mikey Garcia refused to fight Gamboa after calling him out
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:30 PM #20
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The irony of that is that he only got the Gamboa fight because Mikey Garcia refused to fight Gamboa after calling him out
so what are we doing here? agreeing that crawford shouldnt get credit and just deflecting?
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