Does anyone else believe that Rocky Marciano's record was not exactly "so special"?

[Hawkins]

Marciano was a good fighter, but not the spectactular wrecking ball his fans make him out to be.

He's been dropped by smaller men (Former Middleweight Archie Moore), older men (Jersey Joe Walcott), and damn near finished off by journeymen (Ted Lowry).

He only gets his accolades because of his "0".

I'd pick Frazier, Tyson, Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Norton, Holmes, Ali, Louis (prime, not the prehistoric version Marciano mopped up), and a ton of others over him any day of the week.

Most of them would knock the **** out of him, to be quite honest.

Marciano faces what others have faced...coming along after the reign of a great champion (Louis) in an era of weaker opposition. That plagued Holmes, as well as Ezzard Charles and a few others. It's hard to fault the fighter because of the competition..all he can do is fight who is around at the time.

The guys with the longer reach and ability to fight effectively from the outside are the ones who would most likely do the deed but the guys that are shorter and like to bang is where The Rock would be most effective.

I think if he fought today, #1 he would be a light heavyweight and #2, alot of his fights would probably be stopped because of cuts. However his abilities to take a punch and his power would give him a legit shot against anyone.

[ßringer]

Marciano faces what others have faced...coming along after the reign of a great champion (Louis) in an era of weaker opposition. That plagued Holmes, as well as Ezzard Charles and a few others. It's hard to fault the fighter because of the competition..all he can do is fight who is around at the time.

The guys with the longer reach and ability to fight effectively from the outside are the ones who would most likely do the deed but the guys that are shorter and like to bang is where The Rock would be most effective.

I think if he fought today, #1 he would be a light heavyweight and #2, alot of his fights would probably be stopped because of cuts. However his abilities to take a punch and his power would give him a legit shot against anyone.

I can agree with that, him possibly being a force at 175.

I just don't like him in head ot head matchups against the other ATG's, I see them all beating him pretty handily.

And I do rate the Rock, I don't want it to seem like I'm ****ting all over him.

He's on my top 10 heavyweight ATG post in the History forum, so I don't fault him for his era.

I'm just a bit worn thin on the Marciano legend. It's like the Bruce Lee legend, that he could be anybody ass despite having no professional fighting experience.

Only, with Rock, he has the experience, but it still gets to that ungodly level sometimes where I just stand back and shake my head at all the people his fans say he'd beat.

[Hawkins]

I can agree with that, him possibly being a force at 175.

I just don't like him in head ot head matchups against the other ATG's, I see them all beating him pretty handily.

And I do rate the Rock, I don't want it to seem like I'm ****ting all over him.

He's on my top 10 heavyweight ATG post in the History forum, so I don't fault him for his era.

I'm just a bit worn thin on the Marciano legend. It's like the Bruce Lee legend, that he could be anybody ass despite having no professional fighting experience.

Only, with Rock, he has the experience, but it still gets to that ungodly level sometimes where I just stand back and shake my head at all the people his fans say he'd beat.

I agree, it's usually to one extreme or the next. Someone completely dismissing him or someone rating him as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[GJC]

His fights might be fixed? Because he is Italian? OK, name one?
Ethnic Groups doing better at different times in boxing history is probably based more on poverty than anything else. Pre war there were loads of Italians, Irish and Jewish fighters. Not so many now probably because those ethnic groups are not as poor now proportionatly.
As for who Marciano fought here's another question, who did he duck? I will admit that he was not in an era of top notch HW talent but thats not his fault. He beat who was in front of him.
As to who he could beat or not beat, the problem that Marciano bashers have is that they can't point to a fighter who beat Marciano and then say another fighter had that style so he would beat him too.
Not the greatest ever but is due respect, my top two are Louis and Ali and they respected Marciano.
I am sure that ANY HW who took him lightly and didn't respect a man who had his chin, stamina, punch and heart would probably wake up in the dressing room.

[Allucard]

So you're saying that it was the mafia's fault that his oponnents got viciously knocked out? I mean I see your points but that's taking it a bit too far, also his record is special because even though the records and age of his opponents weren't all-time greats you have to respect he started boxing in his 20's turned pro at 24 and beat the best of his era, until there was no one else to beat. So you have to give credit to the guy, he had heart and won wars.

that is a complete lie. He ducked holmes for one, retiring before facing him. he ruled in a weak era, there were no louis, ali or tysons in his era and the only great fighter on his resume is joe louis, they picked him up from retirement to make marciano look good. he is the equivalent of joe calzaghe for that time.

[Allucard]

His fights might be fixed? Because he is Italian? OK, name one?
Ethnic Groups doing better at different times in boxing history is probably based more on poverty than anything else. Pre war there were loads of Italians, Irish and Jewish fighters. Not so many now probably because those ethnic groups are not as poor now proportionatly.
As for who Marciano fought here's another question, who did he duck? I will admit that he was not in an era of top notch HW talent but thats not his fault. He beat who was in front of him.
As to who he could beat or not beat, the problem that Marciano bashers have is that they can't point to a fighter who beat Marciano and then say another fighter had that style so he would beat him too.
Not the greatest ever but is due respect, my top two are Louis and Ali and they respected Marciano.
I am sure that ANY HW who took him lightly and didn't respect a man who had his chin, stamina, punch and heart would probably wake up in the dressing room.

that is also true but then you must weight in the most defining american fact for ethnic dominance in boxing: slavery. it's a long story but i segest a funny shortcut and you will get it, no one can deny this.

[mitch12]

I could have sworn Rocky came in a few times at or near the 200lbs mark, but I may be mistaken.

And for the record, I never said Marciano's fights were fixed. You can't "fix" knockouts. Unless you're Bruce Seldon.

I just said he's overrated, and his myth is overblown. And that I'd pick dozens of top Heavyweights from the last 4 decades to knock the piss out of him.

Well i think your a disrespectful prick how about that.

[TheGreatA]

that is a complete lie. He ducked holmes for one, retiring before facing him. he ruled in a weak era, there were no louis, ali or tysons in his era and the only great fighter on his resume is joe louis, they picked him up from retirement to make marciano look good. he is the equivalent of joe calzaghe for that time.

Holmes? Do you mean Larry Holmes who became champion 10 years after Rocky's death?

[Benny Leonard]

that is also true but then you must weight in the most defining american fact for ethnic dominance in boxing: slavery. it's a long story but i segest a funny shortcut and you will get it, no one can deny this.

Also:
Jimmy the Greek

On January 16, 1988, he was fired by the CBS network (where he was a contributor to the NFL Today program since 1976) after commenting to WRC-TV reporter Ed Hotaling in a Washington, D.C. restaurant that African Americans were naturally superior athletes at least in part because they had been bred to produce stronger offspring during slavery:

“ The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way — because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. This goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trading, the owner — the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid.

[Allucard]

Also:
Jimmy the Greek

On January 16, 1988, he was fired by the CBS network (where he was a contributor to the NFL Today program since 1976) after commenting to WRC-TV reporter Ed Hotaling in a Washington, D.C. restaurant that African Americans were naturally superior athletes at least in part because they had been bred to produce stronger offspring during slavery:

“ The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way — because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs. This goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trading, the owner — the slave owner would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have a big black kid.

exactly, and they would kill the smart ones too. this is probably why we only have one obama whereas there allot more bright white people for each "obamas" we produce. these differences tend to water down with time because the real smart black people, who managed to hide it and pass these smarts to their kids, those survive. also note obama's blackness comes from AFRICA, not the US. Of course we have smart brothers here. gettos and lack of mission and focus are still there but obama will change this im sure, we will step up and hope still be doing well in sports.