Is Larry Holmes the most underrated heavyweight of all time?

[BigGeorge]

I don't know Big George, frankly I hear a lot about Holmes these days on these boards, at least I think I do. I hear his jab being called by some the best ever for the big guys, his lateral movement being really developed, his toughness...He even beat the bean!!


I always felt he was a great fighter, I am still evaluating him as far as his place among the best ever... I can tell you this for sure though...and BET on it! In the mid sixties when I was a mere suckle on me mum's breast and up until the early eighties at least, NO ONE would have said Larry did anything better than Ali...NOBODY. And it pissed Larry off to no end, man had a chip on his shoulder and who could blame him.

But now-a-days? Many pundits say his jab was better, and some say he was a better fighter than Ali.

What would you say? According to some guy on the BoxRec forums, he apparently surpassed Ali in many respects by 1974. Of course, just a rumor, but it's something to think about.

[billeau2]

What would you say? According to some guy on the BoxRec forums, he apparently surpassed Ali in many respects by 1974. Of course, just a rumor, but it's something to think about.

Well Big George, I tend to look at fighters down the road when all their warts, incredible feats, etc have been thrown in the wash, so to speak. Larry is a perfect example: Was he an Ali clone with a bad attitude, who went life and death with guys like Tex Cobb, or was he the Assasin, a man with a jab, mobility and grit surpassing even guys like Tunney on a technical level?

We have seen both aspects of Holmes come to the surface, here is what I am looking at presently with Holmes:

1) We have to separate him from Ali. Ali was a marvel and did things his own way, more like Jack Johnson, Roy Jones... guys that wrote their own rules on mechanics in the ring. Ali's jab functioned as his KO punch, etc. Holmes was a technical fighter who depended on technical skills, timing, etc.

2) So who can we compare Holmes to? I would say Tunney. Both men had similar understanding and technical brilliance, both men came at a change of an era. For Tunney it was the new punching oriented paradigm of fighting with gloves, from the bare knuckle days...Tunney looked up to Corbett who trained in both eras as a fighter, though Corbett allegedly did not fight bare knuckles.

With Holmes, he came into an era when the skill level went down and physically bigger men and bigger cruiser weights came into the division to try their hand.

Holmes like Tunney was not an obvious watershed precursor: One has to study both men, whom they fought, their methods, and who worked with them to see that Holmes was really more OF the Ali, FRazier Foreman era than the Witherspoon, Spinks, Holyfield and Tyson era. Ditto for Gene who was brought along right on the cutting edge between back foot, distance, planned traps and the minimalist step and punching that would define the Dempsey era up to and beyond Louis.

So... Thats where I am at: to me a comparison of Tunney to Holmes will eventually tell us a lot about Holmes and where he belongs. I am doing this by talking on these forums but as said, I have not made my mind up yet. You inspired me to start a thread about this topic and hope this helps.

[BigGeorge]

Another question for those who have Larry in their all-time great heavyweight lists... where do you rank him?

[them_apples]

These Ali vs Holmes comparisons, Holmes was probably neck in neck with Ali after 1974 - but Ali had those intangibles, he was just a smarter fighter. Even in the parkinsons fight Ali showed some brilliance but they seem to only replay the final beating. People are under the impression that Ali got wiped out in 2 rounds, which he did not - he landed some sneaky well placed shots for the first half of the fight. Pretty good for a man that was not only shot to pieces but suffering from an illness.

[Schmerzen]

he is underrated but a young tyson would ko any version of holmes

[OctoberRed]

he is underrated but a young tyson would ko any version of holmes

You don't think a prime Larry gives him a run for his money?

[Schmerzen]

You don't think a prime Larry gives him a run for his money?

tyson had just too much energy when he was young. if shavers can hurt holmes i'm sure tyson would too, but unlike shavers he would finish the job. at least that's what i think

[OctoberRed]

tyson had just too much energy when he was young. if shavers can hurt holmes i'm sure tyson would too, but unlike shavers he would finish the job. at least that's what i think

You actually make a very good point there, because I would pick Tyson over Shavers every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[Joe Beamish]

My top all time HWs:

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Foreman
5. Liston
6. Holmes
7. Lewis
8. Tyson
9. Frazier
10. Dempsey

I don't take the exact rankings too seriously. I see three groups with Ali and Louis being a cut above the rest:

1-2
3-7 (roughly interchangeable)
8-10 (roughly interchangeable, though I think peak Tyson circa '87-'88 would have beaten a number of guys in this list in direct competition.)

[mexicanstyle]

holmes could easily be within the top 10 all time he was the klitchko of the early 80s he had no competition easily dominated during his era.