A reasonable discussion on the Middleweight division

[animelive]

First off GGG being legit is a stupid discussion. Of course he's legit. If you or anyone else don't think he's legit #1 in the division you are some other dudes fanboy, a GGG hater or just got dropped on your head as a baby.



You had to figure this one out? NO ONE escapes scrutiny. Everything is ALWAYS on the table & UP FOR GRABS in a competitive world like professional boxing. With how the multiple titles have destroyed the term champion I believe you can lose the "real title/#1 spot" without losing a fight today thats how much scrutiny is on guys.

For me I considered GGG the champion at 160 after Sergio made it apparent he didn't wanna fight GGG & as GGG improved the guys he fought. And I stripped Adonis Stevenson of his #1 standing with me once he kept fighting bs guy after bs guy while Kovalev was fighting superior opposition.

Since there is 4 or more "champions" & since the champions don't fight like they used to in previous multiple title generations I think this is all fair play that you can keep winning yet lose your "The Champion" standing.



This is complete & utter bs. The number 1 guy in most divisions have lil extra pressure on them. Now there are a handful of P4P tip top guys, like GGG, that have higher pressure on them to fight tip top (I say top 5 guys in a division minus mandatory situations obviously) more often since they are considered among the best guys in all of boxing. This happens all the time & was the same in the Floyd & Manny years. Manny took sh^t for David Diaz type fights. And as a big Floyd fan from childhood til now one of my biggest disappointments in Floyd's career was him ending it (the 2nd or 3rd time lol) by giving Andre f#cking Berto a title shot. Berto doesn't suck, but he wasn't a top 5 guy in the division, deserving of a title shot & stands out to me as Floyd's worst opponent in a title fight for around a decade when he fought so many name + quality guys.



If you listen to the idiots you aren't wrong. There are plenty of people who speak on boxing intelligently here. If you are engaging with the lowest dipsh^ts here who calls the #8 guy in the world a bum casually then yea that type of fan isn't likely to ever give many guys the respect they deserve.

I try to give EVERYONE who boxes a level of respect, but then again that doesn't mean I can't or won't be critical of them. This is a competitive world. If you are slacking its very possible someone else is doing more or will be doing more. #1 is a flimsy spot to be & maybe more so now with the stuff I said earlier talking about you don't even need to necessarily lose to lose the #1 spot these days since the guys who should be fighting fight so seldom like they did in past eras.



Okay now you just went to stupidtown. Who the f#ck was on the Wade War Wagon??????? Granted there were & are guys riding with the other guys mentioned, but I don't see how giving credit to guys on the rise takes away from a guy more proven like GGG.

Theres levels to this sh^t. And no one is saying Charlo or Derevyanchenko is on the level of GGG yet or that they can definitely be one day. Both have massive questions on themselves still & got things to prove vs GGG or other top guys. But the thing is they are in that top 5 mix of guys right now so they should be given that opportunity to succeed or fail in proving themselves vs GGG or Canelo or even other top guys.



GGG is a P4P discussed guy right now lmfao. Worse TLDR everrrrrr. Sh^t man I think most cats got GGG in the top 3 P4P.

All most of us wanna see is good fights. I don't ride or die with many mfers. I do enjoy & respect many mfers. But the reality is boxing is one of the only sports where you can compete against lower level guys in big events & I personally hate that & think it makes boxing look like & feel like a joke sport. This Cinco de Mayo date is a BIG FIGHT DATE. And to me GGG is pissing on the big fight status of this date by fighting an inactive, smaller guy, on late notice, who's never fought in this weight division. GGG needed to fight his mandatory, Derevyanchenko, who was ready to come in late just like Vanes or to push back this date for a month or several weeks to have more time to properly train for a more suitable replacement for this big fight date. Thats all I or most who side more with me than you are thinking. We don't need to see GGG with one hand tied behind his back or that other bs you brought up we just want to see him fight deserving contenders in his own weight division & not bs opponents.

I feel like you have completely missed the essence of this post and went all emotional. If you take a close look at the front page of NSB on a usual day, you will see how many of the posters are actually willing to engage in a constructive discussion. This was not an attack on any individual poster so don't take it personally.

Now about the Wade discussion, you missed my sarcasm. I was implying that people are riding on the Derev hype train now but the same people failed to realize that when GGG was supposed to fight his other IBF mandatories and instead shat on him for that decision. This shows the blatant hypocrisy of most posters. They will be never happy with any fights. Even if GGG fights the top 2 of his division back to back, the bar will be moved farther away as has been seen. Even if he fights his mandatories, he will be constantly scrutinized. At times this will be constructive while other times he will be wrongfully criticized without keeping context in mind. Unfortunately, around here, it is the latter which occurs more frequently.

[TonyGe]

GGG has only ever faced 3 top level guys

Kell Brook- Wasnt even the best WW, and GGG got hit a lot in that fight
Daniel Jacobs- A very close fight where GGG did not look impressive
Canelo- Missed most of his punches and got a draw

For a long career spanning nearly 40 fights its disgraceful, hes not a great fighter. Hes a champ who beat C class fighters his whole career, we dont even know if he can beat Lara, Hurd, Andrade or the Charlo Brothers. Those are 5 guys who apart from Canelo and Jacobs are better than the rest of GGGs opponents thus far.
Lara isnt even the best of the bunch and he arguably won against Canelo

If GGG actually took risks and fought and beat all the above names Id consider him a great fighter, but as of now not even close.

He fought in his weight class his whole career. These guys you mentioned either just moved up or are in a lower class. What's the problem. The problem is when it comes to Golovkin his detractors keep moving the goal posts.

[j0zef]

Some good points overshadowed by a bit of fanboyism. Eff Pandas covered majority of it.

The only part I really disagree with is this one:

This is complete & utter bs. The number 1 guy in most divisions have lil extra pressure on them. Now there are a handful of P4P tip top guys, like GGG, that have higher pressure on them to fight tip top (I say top 5 guys in a division minus mandatory situations obviously) more often since they are considered among the best guys in all of boxing. This happens all the time & was the same in the Floyd & Manny years. Manny took sh^t for David Diaz type fights. And as a big Floyd fan from childhood til now one of my biggest disappointments in Floyd's career was him ending it (the 2nd or 3rd time lol) by giving Andre f#cking Berto a title shot. Berto doesn't suck, but he wasn't a top 5 guy in the division, deserving of a title shot & stands out to me as Floyd's worst opponent in a title fight for around a decade when he fought so many name + quality guys.

Yes, expectations are high, and yes, we want to see big fights. But holding 'meh' fights against fighters is not right. Just like in the work place, everyone has days when they just say 'eh, I don't feel like working today'. No fighter will ever fight murderer's row all consecutively. In my eyes, after taking on a real challenger a fighter is allowed 1 'meh' fight. That should be the ratio - 1:1. Golovkin fought Jacobs and Canelo back to back, he absolutely deserves a stay busy fight.

[Eff Pandas]

I feel like you have completely missed the essence of this post and went all emotional.

Whats the essence of the post? People in higher positions of respect don't deserve to be criticized like everyone else if not more than anyone else when they eff up? Why not?

If you take a close look at the front page of NSB on a usual day, you will see how many of the posters are actually willing to engage in a constructive discussion. This was not an attack on any individual poster so don't take it personally.

I wasn't taking it personally. I was merely speaking on my take.

Now about the Wade discussion, you missed my sarcasm. I was implying that people are riding on the Derev hype train now but the same people failed to realize that when GGG was supposed to fight his other IBF mandatories and instead shat on him for that decision. This shows the blatant hypocrisy of most posters. They will be never happy with any fights. Even if GGG fights the top 2 of his division back to back, the bar will be moved farther away as has been seen. Even if he fights his mandatories, he will be constantly scrutinized.

If you shape your arguments about the stances of the dumbest 10% of mfers here you'll become one of the dumbest 10% here. Why focus your arguments on the stupid mfers with stupid opinions? You are cherry picking dumb mfers to argue with it sounds like.

At times this will be constructive while other times he will be wrongfully criticized without keeping context in mind. Unfortunately, around here, it is the latter which occurs more frequently.

Again it depends on who you engage with. If you read & engage with the dumbest mfers here than yea. If you read & engage what the more intelligent mfers here than no you couldn't be more wrong.

A lot of times when someone gots such a stupid opinion I just give them a troll grade & don't even engage them cuz whats the point in engaging with someone who thinks there are 18 letters in the alphabet? If a dude is that dumb I got no desire to help him or talk to him.

[Eff Pandas]

Some good points overshadowed by a bit of fanboyism. Eff Pandas covered majority of it.

The only part I really disagree with is this one:
Yes, expectations are high, and yes, we want to see big fights. But holding 'meh' fights against fighters is not right. Just like in the work place, everyone has days when they just say 'eh, I don't feel like working today'. No fighter will ever fight murderer's row all consecutively. In my eyes, after taking on a real challenger a fighter is allowed 1 'meh' fight. That should be the ratio - 1:1. Golovkin fought Jacobs and Canelo back to back, he absolutely deserves a stay busy fight.

I can see why people feel that way & lets not ignore the obvious that boxing is a more dangerous sport where the intent is to do damage to someone, not to score a goal or what have you, but to me the integrity of the sport would be beyond reproach if upon winning a title the quality of your opposition was at a bare minimum of a indie ranked top 10 guy for example. It would add more meaning to title defenses & length of reigns. It would prove the strength of your talent vs the consensus of the division at that time in history.

And for me I hold the top P4P discussed guys under that sort of quality control & when they are fighting guys like Vanes I believe its a terrible look for boxing & makes us look like a joke to other sports fans & it feels like a joke.

[Prince Madison]

great post. the worst bit was when (after years and years of people calling him a 1 division coward) a thread came on here about ggg/sanchez saying he might move up, then they all did a u turn and said hes running now the divison is heating up running from guys like andrade and charlo who have beaten noone. and then when he fougth canelo he was 'after a payday' despite them all saying he was ducking. the derevenyenchko thing was pretty funny too, im pretty sure his name was never thrown into the hat as a fighter people wanted to see him fight, then when ggg decided to fight vanes he suddenly became the boogeyman the boogeyman whos best win is sam soliman, just like dominc wade

[Prince Madison]

Whats the essence of the post? People in higher positions of respect don't deserve to be criticized like everyone else if not more than anyone else when they eff up? Why not?



I wasn't taking it personally. I was merely speaking on my take.



If you shape your arguments about the stances of the dumbest 10% of mfers here you'll become one of the dumbest 10% here. Why focus your arguments on the stupid mfers with stupid opinions? You are cherry picking dumb mfers to argue with it sounds like.



Again it depends on who you engage with. If you read & engage with the dumbest mfers here than yea. If you read & engage what the more intelligent mfers here than no you couldn't be more wrong.

A lot of times when someone gots such a stupid opinion I just give them a troll grade & don't even engage them cuz whats the point in engaging with someone who thinks there are 18 letters in the alphabet? If a dude is that dumb I got no desire to help him or talk to him.

its way more than 10 ercent though lol, theres a hell of a lot of posters who absolutely despise him and its not just the obvious trolls. and what really is there to dislike? you dont have to be a fan of him but theres no basis for the constant bashing and hate. its ridiculous.

[animelive]

I can see why people feel that way & lets not ignore the obvious that boxing is a more dangerous sport where the intent is to do damage to someone, not to score a goal or what have you, but to me the integrity of the sport would be beyond reproach if upon winning a title the quality of your opposition was at a bare minimum of a indie ranked top 10 guy for example. It would add more meaning to title defenses & length of reigns. It would prove the strength of your talent vs the consensus of the division at that time in history.

And for me I hold the top P4P discussed guys under that sort of quality control & when they are fighting guys like Vanes I believe its a terrible look for boxing & makes us look like a joke to other sports fans & it feels like a joke.

I've read all your posts and fair enough, you wanted a better opponent and so did many. However, given the context, it is hardly unacceptable. Not to mention, the only other name I saw popping around which made sense was Derev but I'm not sure why everyone keeps jumping on that train like he is a world beater. Is it because he is IBF mandatory? Well, Dominic Wade was too and so was Trueno Johnson and I can remember pretty well what most of the people(not only 10% for sure) thought about those matchups with GGG. As far as I can see, Vanes has more experience than Derev, and GGG is likely having a good fight afterwards so all the whining of the '10% mfkers' is just pathetic from all angles. However, if GGG doesn't take a decent fight afterwards, you can count me in on scrutinizing him as well. I can find no reason in hating this fight when GGG was willing to fight Jacobs and Canelo twice in a row. Very few fighters will ever attempt that kind of schedule.

No fighter should escape criticism but those must be well founded. You are kidding yourself if you think its only a few bad apples who ruin discussions. It happens in every single thread, where boring jokes are repeated and the fights are hardly analyzed. The essence of my first post was that because of these 'few' people, the overall standard of this forum has dropped as far as I can see.

[Eff Pandas]

its way more than 10 ercent though lol, theres a hell of a lot of posters who absolutely despise him and its not just the obvious trolls. and what really is there to dislike? you dont have to be a fan of him but theres no basis for the constant bashing and hate. its ridiculous.

I was just talking about the dumbest 10% of mfers here. Wasn't commenting on how many people like or dislike GGG.

And I don't think he's THAT disliked to begin with anyway doe. There is always the vocal crowd who makes whoever they are complaining about seem more hated then they are.

But the thing is most people don't love or hate any one specific guy & they don't even get involved with that dumb sh^t most of the time.

[uppercut510]

gggee is a good fighter but his resume is nothing to write home about and its just a fact, just like some of the fighters I like don't have the best resumes. thing is I don't go around trashing other fighters resumes and then jump tooth n nail to defend my fighters resume like a lot of gggee fans do.