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Old 12-04-2019, 08:22 PM #21
Mammoth Mammoth is offline
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Originally Posted by boliodogs View Post
What you say makes no sense. AJ has never been the unified heavyweight champion even once.
Wrong. You're mistaking unified and undisputed. All you have to do be unified champion is hold two or more of the 4 major titles at one time.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:27 PM #22
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Originally Posted by WBC WBA IBF View Post
Only 16 men in history have been unified heavyweight champion of the world:

SONNY LISTON (WBC/WBA)
MUHAMMAD ALI x2 (WBC/WBA), (WBC/WBA)
JOE FRAZIER (WBC/WBA)
GEORGE FOREMAN x2 (WBC/WBA), (WBA/IBF)
LEON SPINKS (WBC/WBA)
MIKE TYSON x2 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBC/WBA)
BUSTER DOUGLAS (WBC/WBA/IBF)
EVANDER HOLYFIELD x3 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBA/IBF), (WBA/IBF)
RIDDICK BOWE (WBC/WBA/IBF)
MICHAEL MOORER (WBA/IBF)
LENNOX LEWIS x2 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBC/IBF)
HASIM RAHMAN (WBC/IBF)
WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
TYSON FURY (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
ANTHONY JOSHUA (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
ANDY RUIZ JR. (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)


But only 5 men in history have been unified heavyweight champion of the world on multiple occasions.

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.


This weekend, Anthony Joshua has a chance to join that elite company and become only the sixth multiple time unified heavyweight champion of the world in history.

I made a thread the other day showing the title lineage for the four major organizations at heavyweight and there are surely some very forgettable names on those lists. But when you raise the bar and only acknowledge unified heavyweight champions, all of the forgettable names are eliminated. Only the best of the best remain. When you raise the bar again, and only acknowledge multiple time unified heavyweight champions, you are left with the most elite heavyweights of the last 50+ years.

I'm rooting for Ruiz. I want to see Wilder vs. Ruiz for the undisputed title.

But if Joshua gets the win, everyone owes him massive massive respect for joining a list of such respected and legendary fighters.
That list of 5 can't be touched.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:46 PM #23
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Meh. If Joshua beats Ruiz, then Wilder, then Fury, I'll consider him a real champ.

To me, to be "unified", you gotta clean out the division like the 5 guys listed above.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:12 PM #24
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Originally Posted by WBC WBA IBF View Post
Only 16 men in history have been unified heavyweight champion of the world:

SONNY LISTON (WBC/WBA)
MUHAMMAD ALI x2 (WBC/WBA), (WBC/WBA)
JOE FRAZIER (WBC/WBA)
GEORGE FOREMAN x2 (WBC/WBA), (WBA/IBF)
LEON SPINKS (WBC/WBA)
MIKE TYSON x2 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBC/WBA)
BUSTER DOUGLAS (WBC/WBA/IBF)
EVANDER HOLYFIELD x3 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBA/IBF), (WBA/IBF)
RIDDICK BOWE (WBC/WBA/IBF)
MICHAEL MOORER (WBA/IBF)
LENNOX LEWIS x2 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBC/IBF)
HASIM RAHMAN (WBC/IBF)
WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
TYSON FURY (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
ANTHONY JOSHUA (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
ANDY RUIZ JR. (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)


But only 5 men in history have been unified heavyweight champion of the world on multiple occasions.

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.


This weekend, Anthony Joshua has a chance to join that elite company and become only the sixth multiple time unified heavyweight champion of the world in history.

I made a thread the other day showing the title lineage for the four major organizations at heavyweight and there are surely some very forgettable names on those lists. But when you raise the bar and only acknowledge unified heavyweight champions, all of the forgettable names are eliminated. Only the best of the best remain. When you raise the bar again, and only acknowledge multiple time unified heavyweight champions, you are left with the most elite heavyweights of the last 50+ years.

I'm rooting for Ruiz. I want to see Wilder vs. Ruiz for the undisputed title.

But if Joshua gets the win, everyone owes him massive massive respect for joining a list of such respected and legendary fighters.
Interestingly we do not consider any unification older than the WBA/WBC split unifications. I'm not hating on this thread, it'd a fine thread that makes a fine point, but, there's a few guys from the past I'd called unified champions.

Right off the rip, John L. is kind of a unified champion. Sullivan wins the bare knuckle crown in 1882, then the gloved crown in 1885.


Jeffries ended the schism caused by Corbett's retirement and return by beating all hiers or claimants to the throne along with the British Empire champion


Johnson unified the colored and regular lineal HW crowns and was the first sanctioned champion so the first to unify a sanctioned title with the lineal title. He vacated the colored title immediately, but, still won the lineal as the colored champion.


Langford owned the colored title while holding the NSC's version of a world title. While never a lineal champion Sam Langford is a five time police gazette champion and a national sporting club champion.


Dempsey unified the lineal with the NBA, NYSAC, and Ring titles.


Sharkey is first to combine the NBA, NYSAC, and IBU along with Ring and lineal.


After Louis retired Ezzard Charles fought Joe Walcott for the vacant NBA, alone, just the NBA. He picked up the NYSAC and IBU on the back of defeating the returning Louis.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:19 PM #25
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Isn't this a paradox of sorts? He would've been better off by winning but now that he lost he can pull off a record. I think you can't take records at face value like this. A guy with most avenged losses can't have a better record than a guy with 0 losses, a guy getting up from most KD's compared to someone who never got KD'd and so on...
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:47 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WBC WBA IBF View Post
Only 16 men in history have been unified heavyweight champion of the world:

SONNY LISTON (WBC/WBA)
MUHAMMAD ALI x2 (WBC/WBA), (WBC/WBA)
JOE FRAZIER (WBC/WBA)
GEORGE FOREMAN x2 (WBC/WBA), (WBA/IBF)
LEON SPINKS (WBC/WBA)
MIKE TYSON x2 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBC/WBA)
BUSTER DOUGLAS (WBC/WBA/IBF)
EVANDER HOLYFIELD x3 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBA/IBF), (WBA/IBF)
RIDDICK BOWE (WBC/WBA/IBF)
MICHAEL MOORER (WBA/IBF)
LENNOX LEWIS x2 (WBC/WBA/IBF), (WBC/IBF)
HASIM RAHMAN (WBC/IBF)
WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
TYSON FURY (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
ANTHONY JOSHUA (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)
ANDY RUIZ JR. (SUPER WBA/IBF/WBO)


But only 5 men in history have been unified heavyweight champion of the world on multiple occasions.

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.


This weekend, Anthony Joshua has a chance to join that elite company and become only the sixth multiple time unified heavyweight champion of the world in history.

I made a thread the other day showing the title lineage for the four major organizations at heavyweight and there are surely some very forgettable names on those lists. But when you raise the bar and only acknowledge unified heavyweight champions, all of the forgettable names are eliminated. Only the best of the best remain. When you raise the bar again, and only acknowledge multiple time unified heavyweight champions, you are left with the most elite heavyweights of the last 50+ years.

I'm rooting for Ruiz. I want to see Wilder vs. Ruiz for the undisputed title.

But if Joshua gets the win, everyone owes him massive massive respect for joining a list of such respected and legendary fighters.
Meh....

Resume over titles for me.

It may look impressive on paper, but when your title wins consist of Martin, 41 yr old inactive Klitschko, Parker (solid win) and hypothetically Ruiz. I don’t think you can compare that to the legendary fighters you mentioned. I put it in the same category as PBC comparing Wilder’s 10 title defences with Ali’s 10 title defences.

Times of changed being “unified champion” ain’t what it used to be.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:48 PM #27
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Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
Interestingly we do not consider any unification older than the WBA/WBC split unifications. I'm not hating on this thread, it'd a fine thread that makes a fine point, but, there's a few guys from the past I'd called unified champions.
This thread only focuses on the currently recognized world championships.

This is done for two reasons:

#1 - There was a long stretch where everyone agreed on the champion and technically every single champion from that era was a "unified champion."

#2 - If we recognize those defunct titles for the purposes of this exercise, that means every WBC champion in history is a unified champion since the WBC itself is a unification of the NYSAC, NSC & IBU titles.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:48 PM #28
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Originally Posted by Joe Beamish View Post
Meh. If Joshua beats Ruiz, then Wilder, then Fury, I'll consider him a real champ.

To me, to be "unified", you gotta clean out the division like the 5 guys listed above.
“Meh” was my initial reaction too😂😂
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:49 PM #29
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Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
Interestingly we do not consider any unification older than the WBA/WBC split unifications. I'm not hating on this thread, it'd a fine thread that makes a fine point, but, there's a few guys from the past I'd called unified champions.

Right off the rip, John L. is kind of a unified champion. Sullivan wins the bare knuckle crown in 1882, then the gloved crown in 1885.


Jeffries ended the schism caused by Corbett's retirement and return by beating all hiers or claimants to the throne along with the British Empire champion


Johnson unified the colored and regular lineal HW crowns and was the first sanctioned champion so the first to unify a sanctioned title with the lineal title. He vacated the colored title immediately, but, still won the lineal as the colored champion.


Langford owned the colored title while holding the NSC's version of a world title. While never a lineal champion Sam Langford is a five time police gazette champion and a national sporting club champion.


Dempsey unified the lineal with the NBA, NYSAC, and Ring titles.


Sharkey is first to combine the NBA, NYSAC, and IBU along with Ring and lineal.


After Louis retired Ezzard Charles fought Joe Walcott for the vacant NBA, alone, just the NBA. He picked up the NYSAC and IBU on the back of defeating the returning Louis.
Very good point...
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:50 PM #30
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Originally Posted by Joe Beamish View Post
To me, to be "unified", you gotta clean out the division like the 5 guys listed above.
"Unified champion" means a champion holding more than one recognized world championship. It's a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion. So you don't get to decide what it means to you. It means what it means.
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