Be fair and don't hate a guy because he beat your idol

[chaconfan]

Holyfield was not some small cruiserweight who had to eat himself fat to make 190+, he was already at weight before he stepped into the mix. Needing a second chance to make weight against Carlos De Leon in '88 should of made you aware of that.

Chaconfan. Yes he was. He fought at light heavy in the Olympics and his first 4 pro bouts were as a light heavy.

Except from the Bowe fights what opponent massively outweighed Holyfield who had an actual chance of beating him?
Chaconfan. If I list people that outweighed him, you will just say that they had no chance to beat him. I can see you don't like him, and that no doubt means you are a Tyson fan, so I don't know why I am wasting my time with you.



How stringent was testing during the period? What were they testing for?

Chaconfan. They have been doing drug testing for far longer than Holyfield was around, and since Tyson fans needed an excuse, there is no way that they wouldn't have tested him with all the accusations flying around.


If he did, do you actually believe that?

Chaconfan. Do I actually believe what? That by adding a bit of size, he had an advantage over naturally bigger men, who were still bigger even when he put some weight on? No I don't believe he had any advantage whatsoever, I believe he was always at a disadvantage. Bulking up, makes you slower, and have much less energy. Look how many punches he threw in the first Qawi fight, then look how many he threw in the Ruiz, Holmes, Moorer, Lewis and other fights. He was at one time, a non stop wrecking machine, but became a one flurry per round fighter later on.

[chaconfan]

I was responding to the thread title..

Ah I see. It was because I couldn't add Holyfield into the title because it would have made it too long to fit.
Thanks for bothering to explain.

[BattlingNelson]

IF he took steroids, it was only to be able to put on enough weight to make the heavyweight limit.

Even though the above is faulty, I read this as if you are excusing PED'sters.

Tyson came into the ring with cocaine in his system and most top athletes use something. The Klitschko's def did.

They DEFINETELY did? You better back that bold claim up.

[chaconfan]

Even though the above is faulty, I read this as if you are excusing PED'sters.



They DEFINETELY did? You better back that bold claim up.

I "better"back it up? Sounds like a threat, I am scared, so here is my attempt,how about Vitali admitting he took them as an amateur?
He is not going to admit that he did it as a pro, and face losing his place in history, plus possibly much stronger repercussions, but if you are so determined to win that you would take them for unpaid amateur bouts, you are definitely going to take them when multi millions are at stake. On top of that, they were both tall skinny guys, then both became monsters, putting on far more weight than Evander ever did. Even more so because they were eastern Europeans fighting mostly in a country known for giving hometown decisions, and known to have advanced methods for blocking test results, not to mention known for athletes from those type of countries being drug cheats. Look at Shannon Briggs, a true heavyweight, but STILL took steroids. Everyone picks on Evander, because most people are Tyson fans, and he beat the thug. HA

[chaconfan]

No I def don't admire or excuse cheats, but I am saying that what Evander did (If in fact he did anything) was only to help him be able to get up to the heavyweight limit, and NOT to have any advantage IN THE RING, which is all that counts. Cruiserweight limit 14st4lbs...he weighed 14st10lbs when he fought the near 18st Bowe. A Bowe that walked the streets at over 20st. Not forgetting the massive weight difference in the Valuev, Lewis, Douglas and Foreman fights.

[joeandthebums]

Yes he was. He fought at light heavy in the Olympics and his first 4 pro bouts were as a light heavy.

You did not respond to the point regarding his weight for the De Leon fight, or his natural growth and increase in weight from his amateur/first pro year.

If I list people that outweighed him, you will just say that they had no chance to beat him.

That is why I said who was favoured to beat him except for Bowe during his first reign and then Lewis in his second.

I can see you don't like him, and that no doubt means you are a Tyson fan, so I don't know why I am wasting my time with you.

I am actually a big Evander Holyfield fan. He was one of the main reasons for me why the heavyweight scene of the 90's was so enjoyable.

They have been doing drug testing for far longer than Holyfield was around, and since Tyson fans needed an excuse, there is no way that they wouldn't have tested him with all the accusations flying around.

Drug testing in boxing pre-1984?

[Canelo and GGG]

Evander was great we get it

[BattlingNelson]

I "better"back it up? Sounds like a threat, I am scared, so here is my attempt,how about Vitali admitting he took them as an amateur?

Yes. What about that? How does that involve his professional career? And what has that to do with wlad?

He is not going to admit that he did it as a pro, and face losing his place in history, plus possibly much stronger repercussions, but if you are so determined to win that you would take them for unpaid amateur bouts, you are definitely going to take them when multi millions are at stake.

On top of that, they were both tall skinny guys, then both became monsters, putting on far more weight than Evander ever did.

So you have nothing and you give Holyfield a pass despite the very suspicious Evan Fields case. I am sure you know about that right?

Even more so because they were eastern Europeans fighting mostly in a country known for giving hometown decisions,

What decisions is it you think the brothers got that they did not deserve?
What does that have to do with you accusing them of being ped abusers?

and known to have advanced methods for blocking test results,

What are you talking about? Ukraine? Germany?

not to mention known for athletes from those type of countries being drug cheats. Look at Shannon Briggs, a true heavyweight, but STILL took steroids. Everyone picks on Evander, because most people are Tyson fans, and he beat the thug. HA

"Those types of countries" what??? Are you talking about USA and BALCO?

[chaconfan]

Yes. What about that? How does that involve his professional career? And what has that to do with wlad?

So you have nothing and you give Holyfield a pass despite the very suspicious Evan Fields case. I am sure you know about that right?


What decisions is it you think the brothers got that they did not deserve?
What does that have to do with you accusing them of being ped abusers?

What are you talking about? Ukraine? Germany?


"Those types of countries" what??? Are you talking about USA and BALCO?

I can't be bothered arguing with someone who seemingly cannot understand anything I am saying. You have misunderstood virtually everything I have said.
I will say this though. No I don't give Holyfield a pass at all, I am saying that there is no pass needed to be given, he had NO advantage in the ring whatsoever, and NOTHING you can say will change that. They found Briggs had cheated in the U.S.A, and he only recently looked pumped. So why wouldn't they have found Holyfield to have, over a far longer period?
Do you really think that if two brothers trained together with the same people around them, and they were both skinny, but then both went huge, that only one would take performance enhancers?
Why are you so keen to defend the Klitschko's but so keen to condemn Holyfield? These guys weighed over 17st, Holyfield 14st 10 when he fought the almost 18st Bowe.
I was not saying that the Klitschko's got hometown decisions, I was saying that Germany is a country that protects its fighters with hometown decisions, and a country that would do that, would be far more likely to encourage them to take PED'S and far less likely to fine them for cheating.
Eastern Europeans are known for being the worst drug cheats.

[chaconfan]

Evander was great we get it

Thank you for the sentiment. However the word "we" isn't really applicable...especially to Tyson fans.